Newbie Seeks Your Knowledge (Video & Pics 01/01/07)

[Woody83]

So I've spent the last few hours browsing this forum and I see there is plenty of knowledgable & extremely helpful individuals.

I'm interested in starting a tank with my girlfriend. She'll prefer something small and low maintenance. I'd of course prefer something bigger and exotic. So in compromise I think we'll find something in the 15-20 gal. range (we don't want a huge number of fish, so maybe even a 10 gal. will do?) I understand glass is better in preventing scratches, so I'm leaning towards glass. I would like to have real plant life and understand that will require some beefed up lighting.

Step 1- The tank. What will make one better than another for my situation? The round biOrb looks great, but I've read in these forums it may not be the best way to go. I have read that larger tanks are easier to maintain/clean. Is the difference in maintenance of a 10 gal. drastically difference than a 20 gal.?

If you were me, what tank would you buy? With so many choices I'm afraid a sales rep will just sell me on something for the sake of the sale.

Thank you in advance for any help you may have. And feel free to just link me to similar threads. I did my best to search and browse the stickies, but there's just so much info.

Mike

 

[fish 'n' fries]

Hi, and welcome!

The standard advice is always that a larger tank is less touchy...meaning it's easier to keep the water parameters stable; therefore there's less likelihood of your fish dying etc. Smaller tanks just don't allow as much room for error and that's why they can be more work. That alone, especially if this is your first tank, probably makes the 20 a better choice. (I'm assuming from your post that money and space aren't deciding factors!)

Also, another thing to think about is what fish the two of you are looking at...many fish just get too big for a 10--a 20 definitely gives you more options in stocking.

I've always had glass tanks myself...so can't speak for the glass vs acrylic issue. Keep asking questions and have fun with your new tank!

 

[eah]

I would go for a 29 gallon. It won't really take up more space than a 20 gallon (it is taller but not necessarily wider than a 20g) and you'll have many more options in terms of stocking. Where are you located? I bought my tank off of Craigslist and there are some really great deals to be found out there!

For all your other purchases (filter, heater, etc) I would highly recommend ordering online -- otherwise you will likely end up paying double. I use Drs. Foster and Smith and would be happy to PM you a coupon that should work for $8 off. Lots of other people on here use Big Als.

Here are links to both sites:
http://www.bigalsonline.com/
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/

 

[Esra]

In your situation i would do what I did.

I bought a very small 5G tank and set it up with some live plants, good filter and a few small fish (one betta, couple of neons and mollies etc.)

Then i ran that tank for about 3 months.

I learned a lot in those 3 months beacuse as mentioned the smaller the tank the faster things change.

Once i'd had it for 3 months i bought my 120G and moved across reasonlably confident i could handle what might pop up.

After moving your fish across you can then set the 5G back up as a small Sw tank and start to learn that too.

 

[ksfishguy]

IMO, bigger is better, you will start with a few and gradually want more. It is fun to setup a community aquarium, especially with a friend. Just my opinion, but I like the 29 gallon idea, buy as big as you can for your budget.

 

[JustOneMore20]

Definitely get atleast a 20g...a 20 long would be better than high, since fish swim horizontally. But a 29g would of course be better and would mean more fish. On a 29g you could get a 30 inch light fixture that is 65 watts and you would have a wide range of plant options, without getting high tech.

You will also have a wider range of fish options with the 29g.

The bigger the tank, the more stable the water parameters are and the easier they are to take care of IMO.

 

[JDogg]

Bigger tanks are more stable, get the largest tank you can ($$ and space)

research the fish you want and there requirements, same for the plants (i put more time and effort into my plants then i do my fish :? )

you found a good place, ASK QUESTIONS, and WELCOME!

 

[Woody83]

Thanks so much for the quick and helpful responses.

(fish n' fries) Yes money is not a huge issue, but I'm not looking to spend a fortune. Space might be an issue, this will be in my girlfriends bedroom and she kinda was looking for something small. Who knows, maybe when she sees a nice 20g tank she'll be more open to clearing up some room for it or something bigger.

(eah) Thanks for the links. I am in the Philadelphia area and checked out Craigslist site for my area. There are one or two in the size I'm looking for but I'm the type that is hesitant of buying used stuff. The other two links were great for looking at accessories, it does not appear that they would be the ones to go for to get an actual tank? Or did I miss something. They seem to gear towards accessories and bases/hoods.

(Esra) I definitely see your train of thought. However, I don't envision myself upgrading to something larger than 29g and having a need for 2 tanks.

(ksfishguy) I agree, I think after everything is set up even if I start with 1-2 fish I'll want a few more. Might as well leave some room for a little bit of expansion.

(JustOneMore20) Thanks for commenting on my plant enthusiasm. I was worried about the lighting requirements and the expense.

(JDogg) I research so much. Too much sometimes, but in this case I think it's worth it. I went to my local fishie shop tonight just to look at the fish and plants and get an idea of what I might want. And yes, this forum has turned out to be incredibly helpful and friendly. Thank you.


I might as well move on to step two. As long as I find the space for it, I'll be getting a glass 20-29g tank. Now what?

I can just buy the tank and put it on a sturdy table, then buy all the accessories individually online specific to what I need (if I can ever figure out what it is I will need). Or I can buy a package at the local store that comes with all the beginners stuff you'll need. I assume the package deal stuff is pretty low level and won't be what I want as far as proper lighting for plants and a quiet pump for a bedroom environment.

So after finding a tank, what is/are the next essential purchases?

Thanks all again so much for your help.

 

[jsoong]

Would not get the typical package deal - cheap equipment breaks, don't work well, needs early replacement, ends up costing more ....

If you know what you want & what on-line prices are, it might be possible to get a good lfs to put together a good package deal for not much more than on-line <We have a Big Al's store in town & they will do that.>, but otherwise avoid the typical Pet*Smart, WalMart type packages.

What you need in additional to tank to get started:

1. heater - a good submersible one, preferable with electronic control.
2. filter - HOB's are good for 20-30 gal .... However, they tend to be on the noisy side (esp. for a bedroom), so you might want to consider a small canister (good ones like Eheim or Fluval).
3. some thing to do water change with - bucket & gravel vac/siphon hose or better yet a Python.... and LOTS of towels - I always make a mess.
4. a basic test kit (you will need that to cycle the tank - read the article on cycling if you haven't already) & water conditioner (dechlorinator).
5. a good thermometer.

For the plants:
1. substrate - some thing to grow plants in .... high tech stuff like eco-complete or low tech like soil & peat & gravel mix (not really recommended unless you don't mind a mess in your tank all the time!) I use Profile (Schultz aquatic soil) from garden center (pond section) about half the price of lfs plant substrate.
2. canopy with good light - at least 50-60 W of fluorescent - CF's probably the most cost effective.
3. if you really get into plants, you'll want high light (120W & up for the 30 gal), CO2, fertilizers .... etc. I would not go this route until you get a good handle on plants (& it will be expensive to go high light/high tech!) but you might choose a canopy that can accomodate future expansion if this is what you are heading.

 

[JeffreyL]

tank

Woody83, let me add another welcome, this really is a fun site. Two more things for you to ponder;

1. If you have a local Petsmart, check out their website. Any equipment you like on the website that the local store also carries you can buy at the web price. just orint out the web price & present it when buying. I have saved 40% on heaters and filters. Plus, if there is a problem, it is a local return.

2. Be careful selecting a table for a 29 gal tank. If you have not already discovered this, a fish tank weighs a bunch!!!! In the case of a 29 gal, it will weigh in excess of 300 pounds when set up. An aquarium stand may be a safer option. Or if you are a do it yourselfer, there are links here and elsewhere on easy stand consrtuction. Even something suitable for a girlfriends room.

Have fun & let us know how it goes!!!

P.S. Window shopping fish loooooong before setup and buying is possibly the best thing you can do. Starting off with a properly set up tank, and a good balance of fish will minimise or even eliminate most of the new tank issues.

 

[joannde]

Quote: I don't envision myself upgrading to something larger than 29g and having a need for 2 tanks.

Hi Woody - many of us have said that - be careful, be VERY careful, this hobby is addicting ! LOL

Welcome to AA !!!

When you're ready to set up the tanks be sure to read the articles on the Nitrogen Cycle (in the Freshwater articles section) and on Cycling a Tank (in the Saltwater section - same process is used for Freshwater).

 

[fish 'n' fries]

Jsoong did a great job of listing out what you need.

I've always liked HOB filters--reasonable price, last forever--I don't find them too noisy if you keep the water level high. Of course I've not had them in my bedroom either.

You really will need to be careful where you put the tank...it will be quite heavy and bowing the dresser may not go over too well.

As for the plants...as I'm sure you've learned, if you've looked on this site...you can get quite serious about plants. Depending on what plants you're thinking about and how much effort you want to put into them depends on what you need. I grew lower light plants with the stock lighting on a 10 for years in plain old gravel without difficulty. Even now with my bigger tank I'm not using any special substrate (although I did upgrade my lights and am fertilizing--but that's because I'm drooling over some higher light plants). I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to start out with basics, you just need substrate and lights...how much/expensive/specialized...depends on what you're planning to grow.

 

[Woody83]

2. filter - HOB's are good for 20-30 gal .... However, they tend to be on the noisy side (esp. for a bedroom), so you might want to consider a small canister (good ones like Eheim or Fluval).

Is something like the Eheim 2126 w/ heater overkill for 29g? Would this eliminate the need for a seperate heater and thermometer?

 

[eah]

(eah) Thanks for the links. I am in the Philadelphia area and checked out Craigslist site for my area. There are one or two in the size I'm looking for but I'm the type that is hesitant of buying used stuff. The other two links were great for looking at accessories, it does not appear that they would be the ones to go for to get an actual tank? Or did I miss something. They seem to gear towards accessories and bases/hoods.

That's right, you won't be able to get your actual tank from the online places.

I can understand being a little wary of used stuff. However, the difference in prices (i.e. paying less than $100 for a nice used 20 or 29 gallon tank and stand instead of over $300 for a new one) is a great benefit. I've bought two used tanks from Craigslist and was very happy with them. Don't forget you can still get all of your equipment new even if you go for the used tank.

Of course, it's important to do what you're most comfortable with.

My one biggest piece of advice would be to stock your tank slowly and keep it understocked until you're feeling comfortable with maintaining it. You'll be able to avoid so many problems if you keep the bioload on the lower side.

Be sure to keep us posted on how things go and good luck!

 

[jsoong]

Is something like the Eheim 2126 w/ heater overkill for 29g? Would this eliminate the need for a seperate heater and thermometer?

That is good for a 150 gal ...

I suppose you can run it in a 29g, assuming you have fish that don't mind strong currents ... but it would not be too good for plants to be battered about. There is a smaller one with in line heater <2116?> for a 100 gal or so, but that would still be over kill. I am all for over-filtering ... but there has to be a sensible limit.

The build in heater is nice in that you don't have a seperate heater in the tank, and once you find a place to hide the canister, you won't have anything showing in the tank except intake & outflow.

As for thermometer, even though Eheim makes good stuff & so on ... most people will still check the temp from time to time just in case of drift & calibration errors (cheap heater can be off by 5-10 degrees!) You don't need a "fish tank" thermometer ... I use an instant read meat thermometer (from my kitchen) to take the temp ... anything accurate will do.

EDIT :- If you REALLY like that Ehiem filter, you can always get a bigger tank to match ... like a 55!

 

[Woody83]

At 55 do I need to start worrying about the weight and what a second story bedroom floor can handle?

 

[rich311k]

A 55 gallon is no concern as far as weight goes as long as you use a proper stand.

 

[Esra]

I think he means the floor supporting it.

I was worried about that as i live in an apartment and my tank weighs 650Kg
But it's all concrete so no problem.

 

[Woody83]

Thanks to all of you for your advice, I'm sure this type of hand holding gets redundant to you. Talked with my girlfriend some more tonight about all this and she might actually be into something larger. We need to check out the tanks at our local stores as well as the fishes and see what we are into. Till we finally decide on a tank size I'll try to keep my questions to a minimum.

But I do have one more. If in fact we decide on something in the 50+ range, is something that big an issue where we should definitely look into a CO2 system? Or can we still get away without one and still have a decent variety of lower level live plant life with out it?

Edit: Oh, and eah, thanks for the more info. Based on others suggestions to go bigger I am inquiring about a craigslist tank.

 

[fish 'n' fries]

The need for a CO2 system is less the size of your tank than the type of plants you want. There are plants that require high light which in turn requires more CO2. I'd look into the type of plants you'd want, same as the fish and then decide. That will determine your lighting needs as well as then your CO2 needs. (Although, it is addicting and then you find yourself going...I could grow that if I just had more light...) Good luck!