(PLEASE READ! im new and i really need help!!!) UPDATE

[Dimitri146]

i purchaced an eclipse 6 gallon tank about 2 months ago and things have not been working out so good. at first i had 2 african dwarf frogs in a 2 gallon tank and after i set up the 6 gal. for 24 hours I put the frogs in, everything was ok. a few days later i got 4 phantom tetras. everything was cool. a week or so after that i got 3 small zebra dianos. cool (except for they are wayyy too wild) after letting the tank adjust to all these fish for about a month i bought a gold nugget pleco.

my pleco seemed active for the first day but the day after that i noticed he wasnt grazing or going for the algaewfer that i put inside. 2 more days passed of him not eating or doing much of anything for that matter and then i noticed that his suction was getting weaker on the tank and he was starting to slide down. he still wasnt eating and a few days after that he died. i felt terrible. i change about %20 of my water once a week and try to do everything i can keep the tank healthy but i think my ph was still a little too high.

anyhow i went to the fish store and asked about it and they said that they have a 24 hour ruturn policy and that the best they could do was give me a chinese algie eater to test my water and if it held up ok after a few weeks they would give me another gold nugget at their cost. i agreed. i took the chinese algie eater home, changed most of the water and put him in. he was doing fine for the last three weeks, but today the problems started.

The Dainos have realy been getting on mu nerves so today i decided i would take them out and donate them to the fish store. easier said then done. i worked to get them out of the tank for a good 20-25 minutes. i tried to go as slow as possible but i couldnt even come close. i sped up the process trying not to stress the other fish and frogs out and i finally got them. i took them to the fish store, told them my algae eater was fine and asked if they thought it would be time to try another pleco. they said yes so i purchaced it along with a small piece of wood and some stuff called proper PH that is supposed to keep my tanks PH at around 7.0. when i came home i knew the fish might have already been stressed but i did a partial water change, put in the proper PH, and put the bag with the gold nugget pleco in the water to get used to it. 20 min later i put the pleco in the tank along with the wood.

he really didnt do much but sit there in the same place for a while and blink. i put a few pieces of wafer in there and decided not to disturb the tank any more then i had . the wierdest think happen next. a while back i had treated my fish and frogs to some worms and i though they had eaten them all. apparently i was wrong because all the sudden they started coming out of the gravel from everywhere. my frogs went crazy and ate all of them that they could, the fish had a few here and there too but i dont know where they came from! i guess it was the proper PH salt that brought them out but i dont know. anyway, I didnt feed the fish, i let them be hoping they would eat more of those worms and get rid of them. then i left for the day. when i came home tonight the gold nugget pleco was still ust sitting there but in a different spotand the other pleco was DEAD. the frogs were huge from eating so much. the tetras had lost most of there color and looked like ghost but were moving around normally and the water in the tank was very cloudy.

can anyone give me some advice. i mean well i swear i do. and i dont want to lose anymore of my fish or frogs. is it too late? was it stress? is there anything else i should add or take out from the tank??? help!

 

[Mushime]

well, i think there are a few things possibly going on here...

first off, i think you were very overstocked for a 6 gallon, especially when you had the danios. i'm not a big fan of the one inch of fish per gallon rule, but it's decent to use as a rough guideline, and you were way over that (the one inch of fish is the adult size of the fish, not the size it is when you get it). not to mention the fact that plecos and frogs are poop factories, which will reduce the number of fish you can safely have in that tank...as well, plecos can and do get humongous (i believe gold nuggets can get to be 8" long!), much too big for that tank.

secondly - unless your pH is off the charts (like way above 8.0 or below 6.0), most store-bought tropical fish can deal with it (there are exclusions to this, but most tropical fish are raised in captivity and can deal with most household pH). what is more deadly to fish is having a pH that fluxuates, which is what will happen when you attempt to turn you pH into something it isn't. a pH change of more than 0.2 per day can be deadly to fish, which may be what put everyone into what sounds like shock in the later part of your post. my personal opinion is that you should avoid trying to raise or lower pH unless:

a.) you're trying to breed and the fish you're attempting to spawn requires a certain pH (ie discus)

b.) you're keeping some species that requires a certain pH (ie african cichlids)

c.) you know what you're doing...it really takes a light touch and constant attention.

ok, third thing...did you cycle your tank? if you're thinking, "what's cycling?" then you probably need to read something like this: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html the reason i ask is because you said you've had this tank going for around 2 months, and a lot of fish deaths can point to a tank not being properly cycled. it can take 6 weeks or more for a tank to cycle properly, and if you've got a large bio-load (as you seem to), your tank can have a really hard time dealing with waste conversion...in addition, small tanks like yours are much more difficult to keep in balance than large tanks simply because you've got less room for error (smaller amounts of water). i would highly suggest buying a test kit that has tests for at least ammonia, nitrIte and pH and really keep on top of it for awhile. if you have the fish store test your water, tell them you want the exact numbers, not just for them to tell you your water is ok or is not ok (that's not very helpful when you're trying to figure out what is going on in situations like yours). it's more likely that ammonia or nitrites were killing your fish, rather than the pH being off, IMHO.

final thing - remember, (and i don't mean this as a slam to pet store people, really), most fish store employees aren't highly educated on fish, especially if it's a chain store. a lot of them really don't know what they're talking about, have very little experience, and are mostly interested in selling you as many fish as they can, regardless of whether they'll thrive in your situation or not. take everything they tell you with a grain of salt...

hope some of that helps, i'm sorry you're having such a hard time right now

 

[tkos]

Also that Chinese Algae eater has no bussiness in a 6 gallon tank. They can get 8-12 inches long and are very aggressive when older. The only algae eater suitable for your tank would be shrimp or ottos. But ottas need a well maintained tank that has gone through the cycle and is stable. Plus you should have at least 3 or more of them.

I would stay away from any future plecos unless you have at least a 20 gallon tank for the dwarf variety (they still get to be 5 inches or so).

Probably your frogs and tetras are about all you should keep in that tank to make it a healthy and easy to maintain one. Phantom tetras will get to be about 2 inches or so which means 8 inches of adult fish. And if you use the 1 inch per gallon rule that is already too much but is managable. That rule only works for small bodied fish like tetras, but not plecos or goldfish or frogs, most of whom are colder water fish nad produce excessive amounts of waste.

 

[Allivymar]

You got some absolutely awesome advice here Dimitri146; theres little I can add, but I DO want to emphasize how important getting the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate tests are. Ammonia and nitrites are deadly to fish; ammonia burns their gills, nitrites compete with oxygen and either way the fish suffocate. More sensitive fish will keel over pretty quickly. Because you are doing regular water changes, you are removing SOME of the toxins and the hardier fish have a chance, although they are probably stressed beyond belief.

I also suggest doing some research on the fish you decide to get BEFORE you buy them. I made the same mistake, and got a plec without knowing exactly what type it was. He was 1 1/2 inches when i got him; a year later he's 8 inches long (and may top out at 2 feet!) and I just got a 55g to accomodate him for now.

Also, when we say "cycle" we are specifically talking about the Nitrogen Cycle, and not water moving thru the filter. Its the key to keeping an aquarium. The website Mushime recommended is awesome; let me second the suggestion to read it.

Keep us updated on how things are going!

 

[Dimitri146]

thank you for all your great advice everyone, the pleco i have is a dwarf pleco. i dont know if that makes any diference. the dianos are no longer in the tank. and will definetly look to get an amonia test kit today.

am i keeping my tank from properly cycling by changingthe water so often?

should i change the filter cartrage again? i did it a few weeks ago. but there is some left over food and some waste on it.

if my tank is still cycling what should i do with which fish?


btw the tetras have their color back. the frogs seem to be ok. and the gold nugget pleco is still alive but he doesnt move much at all, he just sits inthe bottom corner attached to the side of the tank. doesnt look like he's started exploring the tank or anything yet.

thanks again

 

[azn dreamer]

am i keeping my tank from properly cycling by changingthe water so often?

Yes. But if you keep changing water, you'll have more chance of all fish surviving.

should i change the filter cartrage again? i did it a few weeks ago. but there is some left over food and some waste on it.

You should just wash it out...the bacteria builds up in there so changing it would mean you have to start the cycle again.

if my tank is still cycling what should i do with which fish?

You can't really do much....just hope for the best and do regular water changes

 

[Dimitri146]

i just got back from having my water tested.

the PH is 6.4 (is that too low?)

and the amonia is off the charts. the guy said because i have too much food, and fish & worm waste in the tank. i bought a sipher. i know there are some dead worms under the gravel after i put the proper PH salt in there yesterday so should i take them out right away or should i wait a few days like they told me? i would think it would be best to get it out right away but i just changed the water yesterday and if i take some out and put some new water in today that might be too much.

 

[Mushime]

if the ammonia is off the charts, i'd do a small water change (like maybe a gallon) while vaccuuming the gravel probably every day for a couple of days until your ammonia drops a bit (i don't know what off the charts is specifically, but it's probably too high ). don't do a huge change because that can shock them even more...just small changes rather often. it's really preferable if you can buy your own test and that way you can check it every time you get ready to do a water change - if you can't afford a master test kit, at least get one that tests ammonia and nitrite.

6.4 pH is a bit low but it's probably due to adding all the stuff you've been messing with...cycling can affect the pH as well. after you've done a week's worth of small changes, you can maybe test the pH again and see what you're settling at. if it ends up being 6.4 naturally, it's not going to hurt the fish, they'll adjust to it.

by the way, when you wash your filter cartridge as azn dreamer suggests, wash it in the tank water that you're removing from the tank (like if you siphon into a bucket, rinse the cartridge in the bucket with the old tank water). if you run it under tap water the chlorine can kill the bio bacteria...just wanted to specify how to wash it.

 

[Allivymar]

Do not wait. Ammonia and nitrItes are toxic and if they're that high they can and most likely will kill your fish. Tis better to have a slow cycle then to have ammonia in the tank.

I would personally do a large water change; 2-3 gallons (up to 50%); only prob is you've added the Ph stuff and your tap PH may not match. That can be an issue. You may want to grab some ammonia converter like Amquel or Ammolock (?) which will convert the ammonia to a non toxic form (although it will show up on an ammonia test) and add that to the tank. Either way, you need to get that ammonia out of there ASAP.

 

[wabyrd]

if you can't afford a master test kit, at least get one that tests ammonia and nitrite.

I'd suggest ammonia and nitrAte. That way you can tell when the tank has done it's thing...

 

[tkos]

Get that pleco out of there now. He is the bad boy here. Plecos create tons of waste for their size and eventually he will get to be 4-5 inches long. That is way too big for your tank. The only bottom feeder that you should have are shrimp or cory catfish (maybe 2 or 3 of the dwarf ones). A dwarf pleco still really needs at least a 20 gallon tank to thrive. And yes do water changes everyday if you need to. I would prepare my water each night and then do a water chaneg the next day with it. Have 2 containers, one for dirt water and one for the clean water coming into the tank. With a tank that size you don't need to have a huge container to do water changes with. Maybe something a gallon in size.

 

[Dimitri146]

well i got the test strips and i put a product called amonia clear in the tank which is supposed to help with the high amonia levers. unfortunately the test strips i got do not tell amonia they tell the following and these were their readings:

1) nitrate (no-3) 40
2) nitrate (no-2) 10.0 (the bottle says 10.0 is a dangerous level)
3) hardness 25
4) alkalininty 80
5) PH 6.4

i also did another sipher and replaced about a gallon of water. i got ALOT of stuff out. are those close to normal? the tank seems to be getting a little less cloudy. also should i feed my fish now or wait? i dont wanna put any more stuff in there if i dont have to. btw my pleco is about 2 inches long and he hasent eaten a thing since i got him. i noticed his suction is a bit weak. he only tries to suck on about an inch or two above the gravel on the side of the tank but he slowly slides down

 

[Oscar]

Pet store staff

Although MUSHIME says he does not mean to slam pet stores 8O I would like to suggest the following:
I own and operate a small LFS and I and my 1 staff member have a total of 70 years of fish keeping experience. I think the advice given here is extremely good and a good fish store would have given her the same advice PRIOR to the start of her problems. We offer free water testing and have developed a form itemizing the exact results and what they mean.

 

[Mushime]

oscar, i said:

"final thing - remember, (and i don't mean this as a slam to pet store people, really), most fish store employees aren't highly educated on fish, especially if it's a chain store."

i think the key point in your rebuttal is that you OWN a SMALL fish store. i've found some very good small, locally owned LFS's where the owner and most of the staff really knew what they were talking about and seem to care about their fish and their customers. however, that is a rarity...and i think it is almost non-existant in the chain stores like petsmart, petco, petland, walmart, etc ad naseum.

i happen to be married to a military member and move all over the country fairly regularly, and i do submit that places like yours are the exception rather than the rule. i mentioned this because i have heard some truly awful advice given to people who trust and believe that people who work with fish actually know what they're talking about, and the truth is, the vast majority of them don't.

this wasn't meant to slam you...obviously you are a fish keeper that knows your business and cares about it - large kudos to you. i just don't happen to see this very often in my travels, and i hate to see people who are new to fishkeeping get frustrated and quit because they're hanging on some very bad advice that the guy at petco gave him.

thank you for what you do for your customers, and please accept my apologies if i hurt your feelings...YOU are not the type of LFS owner/employee that i'm talking about.

 

[Dimitri146]

ok thats was i bit off the subject

today the pleco seems to be more active!!! he is sucking on the glass at almost the top of the tank. and last night he moved from the corner that he had been laying in and sat on the top of the driftwood i put in there. i changed about %25 more of the water today and removed a bunch more crap. i still have my fingers crossed.

btw one of my frogs has always been very green and the other has always been almost white. for a while the white one seemed to be getting darker. now that i have been doing frequent ater changes tho, he has gone back to almost white. why is that.