Punnet Square for Blue Ghosts, P.scalare
- Thread starter Jacky12
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
ghyti
Aquarium Advice Activist
You can go here for a calculator.
https://angelfins.ca/index.php?main_page=genetics_calculator
In your case you will get:
[FONT="]#[/FONT][FONT="] Genotypes Phenotypes %[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 +/+,+/+,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,+/+,+/+,pb/pb Blue silver 25%[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 +/+,S/+,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,+/+,+/+,pb/pb Blue ghost 50%[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 +/+,S/S,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,+/+,+/+,pb/pb Paraiba 25%[/FONT]
https://angelfins.ca/index.php?main_page=genetics_calculator
In your case you will get:
[FONT="]#[/FONT][FONT="] Genotypes Phenotypes %[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 +/+,+/+,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,+/+,+/+,pb/pb Blue silver 25%[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 +/+,S/+,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,+/+,+/+,pb/pb Blue ghost 50%[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 +/+,S/S,+/+,+/+, +/+, +/+,+/+,+/+,pb/pb Paraiba 25%[/FONT]
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
They will have a 1:2:1 ratio of fry. Can anyone please advise me on the genotypes of the fry? At what age could they be determined? Thanks
Don't forget that the punnett square assumes 100% of spawn survival so your actual count will vary since not 100% of a spawn always hatches. The genotype is determined at fertilization. You only get to see the phenotype when the fry get older. There really isn't a definite timeframe for all varieties. Case in point, my Red Caps didn't show the red cap until they were 6-8 months old while my Silvers were silver at 3-4 weeks after free swimming.
As for using the punnett square, you also really need to know the genetic makeup of the parents to be more exact. There could be a whole host of lines that made the parent up.
Case in point, a Koi Angel is made up of 8 different genetic lines. You'd need a really big piece of paper to make the square large enough to include all the genes. 
lol. I’ll just write on the wall. The breeder says he can tell by 4 weeks due to his vast experience. He says
25% +/+ pb/pb Blue Silver
25% ++ pbpb S/S. Paraiba
And 50% like the P’s.
You bring up an interesting point. I wonder if there’s different survival rates among the 3 genotypes
25% +/+ pb/pb Blue Silver
25% ++ pbpb S/S. Paraiba
And 50% like the P’s.
You bring up an interesting point. I wonder if there’s different survival rates among the 3 genotypes
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
I learned about using the square at an early age but it was much easier when you are trying to figure out what mixing a marble and silver ( for example) will result in. Now, there are 7 accepted Marble lines.
Silvers that come from Ghosts. Marbles coming from all gold parents. I just gave up on using the square and decided to just be surprised. LOL
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Exactly. I had a pair of angels in this last hatchery that would be listed as S/SV/M/B/Zb/ G/GV/GM/-ST ( Silver, Silver Veil, Marble, Black, Zebra lace, Gold, Gold Veil, Gold Marble and Stripeless ) because they produced all of them.
Stick that on a P Square. 
Naw, you’re the experienced expert. You can do it & post a copy.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
ghyti
Aquarium Advice Activist
"Don't forget that the punnett square assumes 100% of spawn survival so your actual count will vary since not 100% of a spawn always hatches."
Actually the Punnet Square assumes a total over the lifetime of the parents so any given spawn can vary considerably. But generally they come out somewhere close. Yes there are a lot of recessive genes that could throw a monkey wrench into the mix. Looking at the babies will tell you more about the parents genetics than the other way around. Usually takes about a month to be able to tell the phenotypes. They will start to color up about the time they get their fins, The Blushing for the Paraibas may take a little longer to express.
Actually the Punnet Square assumes a total over the lifetime of the parents so any given spawn can vary considerably. But generally they come out somewhere close. Yes there are a lot of recessive genes that could throw a monkey wrench into the mix. Looking at the babies will tell you more about the parents genetics than the other way around. Usually takes about a month to be able to tell the phenotypes. They will start to color up about the time they get their fins, The Blushing for the Paraibas may take a little longer to express.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
I don't believe the Punnett Square covers a lifetime as much as it covers a single pairing. Since the square is used in more than just animal pairings, it's hard to believe it would deviate to accommodate just fish.
This is an interesting read on genetic inheritance: https://www.palomar.edu/anthro/mendel/mendel_2.htm
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
I just tried it and it worked for me so it must have to do with a setting on your machine. If necessary, type the URL into the search box. This is the entire page URL : https://www.palomar.edu/anthro/mendel/mendel_2.htm
Thanks, the link above easily opened!
I am not a serious breeder. I happened to see this beautiful pair & wanted them. They are young, ~13 months & have spawned 3X. The breeder has a big batch of 3 week old fry of theirs. He pulls the cone. I may leave it in or use a tank divider.
I am not a serious breeder. I happened to see this beautiful pair & wanted them. They are young, ~13 months & have spawned 3X. The breeder has a big batch of 3 week old fry of theirs. He pulls the cone. I may leave it in or use a tank divider.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
This is what I know about breeding Angels: If you let the parents have anything to do with hatching the eggs or raising the fry, they eat the ones you wanted the most.
So if you are looking for a particular phenotype, I suggest you rear the spawn yourself. Here’s what I hear and I know both sides to be true. Most angels will consume the fry, especially younger ones. Some fish will rear them on their own. I am totally not into marketing fish. I also hear when the cone or other depositing device is left in, the female will spawn less. I say give the girl a break. My plan now is to keep a few young fish and give the rest away. As in for free.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Alls I was jokingly saying was that if you get a pair looking for a certain outcome, unless the expected outcome is at 100%, fish just seem to know which rarity you want so they take those out first.
Yes, females can spawn less if they are caring for a spawn but when they want to spawn again, they will even eat the existing fry they were taking care of to protect the future eggs so you really can't stop them from spawning other than to lower the temps to get them "out of the mood". You can expect them to spawn every 10-14 days if the parameters are conducive.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
I've even had them spawn as frequently as every 7 days. These are not wild fish. Wild fish do not spawn on a daily cycle but a seasonal one so they have to get as many spawns in as possible during the season. To my knowledge
spawning does not shorten their lifespans since domestics eventually just run out of eggs before they run out of life. As I said, if you want to stop an Angel from spawning, lower the temperature of the water to out of the spawning zone. 76-78 usually does it but if not, lower it to 75-76.
