Fishguy2727
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Yes, we all know. But it is not exactly the same and will not be the same chemically in the tank, as some people's expriences have supported.
Sand?
- Thread starter giggalz
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Shadowraven
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Agreed, but I haven't seen any cases where quartz sand had an effect on water chemistry. It is insoluble in water. In fact it is insoluble in about anything except hydroflouric acid.
What kind of experiences are you referring to, I would like to research this further.
I've heard the sand silicates thing, but read that it was a myth. The dissolved silicates had actually came the tap and not the substrate. Sodium silicates are often found dissolved in tap water. I'll check again.
Fishguy2727
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That is one of the most important things about a forum, finding out some of the more rare things so that people know about the risks.
That is one thing I hate about proving somethings a myth, anything is impossible or a myth until it happens (more specifically it happens to the author or someone the author deeply trusts). Without very thorough research to back it up, it is very difficult to prove a myth.
I don't remember all the details, and a baseline of silicates from the tap may have been involved, but the aquarist didn't have brown algae before using the sand, and the only thing that fixed it was taking the sand back out.
That is one thing I hate about proving somethings a myth, anything is impossible or a myth until it happens (more specifically it happens to the author or someone the author deeply trusts). Without very thorough research to back it up, it is very difficult to prove a myth.
I don't remember all the details, and a baseline of silicates from the tap may have been involved, but the aquarist didn't have brown algae before using the sand, and the only thing that fixed it was taking the sand back out.
DragonFish71
Great white snark
Ya know, you can get diatoms with regular gravel as well. I had diatoms with all our tanks, some have gravel, some have sand, some have 3M color quartz, some have Eco-Complete. I consider it a normal stage when I'm starting a new tank. I have no doubt that some is from the water supply, but to base diatoms purely on a substrate issue is preposterous.
I had a really nasty diatom outbreak on my latest setup a couple of weeks after filling it... and it has ADA Aquasoil in it. It took about 2 weeks of brushing the glass and whatnot but it cleared up. I have to agree with Jamie.
I would say for each person who reports a major diatom issue while using PFS, there are 100 other people who use it with no problem. So, maybe the PFS isn't the problem at all.......
I would say for each person who reports a major diatom issue while using PFS, there are 100 other people who use it with no problem. So, maybe the PFS isn't the problem at all.......
Shadowraven
Aquarium Advice FINatic
From the reports I had seen the outbreak was more likely related to silicates in the tap water, rather than the substrate.
Shadowraven
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That's what I was getting at
Right, Sorry if it sounded like I was being dense. I was trying to back you up on what you wrote.
Fishguy2727
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No one said you wont get brown algae without silica sand. I only bring it up so people deciding on a substrate have all info on hand.
When you have no brown algae, add pfs, get brown algae, take the sand out and the brown algae goes away it is preposterous to determine that the sand, in that particular case, was the cause of the brown algae.
When you have no brown algae, add pfs, get brown algae, take the sand out and the brown algae goes away it is preposterous to determine that the sand, in that particular case, was the cause of the brown algae.
Amicus
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Someone had mentioned sandblasting material before and I mentioned Black Beauty and industrial quartz. I am not sure about using industrial quartz but from what I do know about Black Beauty is that the particles are longer and sharp. Black Beauty is also pretty dirty, makes a mess at site I have been to. The product is dirty before and after use. I would be more apt to look at industrial quartz as it is basically sand and from what I've seen the particles are larger than even pfs. It's cheap too for a 50lb bag. Hope this helps, at least a little.
DragonFish71
Great white snark
Maybe that person should learn how to clean a tank when there's a diatom outbreak instead of blaming the sand.
Sorry, blaming sand doesn't fly with me. 14 tanks, all different substrates, all had diatom blooms, all got cleaned up. *Shrugs* I see propaganda against sand in the whole story.
Shadowraven
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I didn't think of that. I haven't seen it so can't say, but that would seem to make sense in sandblasting media.
If the edges are sharp, I personally would steer clear of it because of my corys. I have to see if I can manage to go look at some and let you know.
Fishguy2727
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When an established tank gets sand and then and only while the sand is in is the brown algae so virulent that the aquarist breaks down and takes it out it isn't the aquarist's fault. That particular person is not a newcomer to the hobby. They are very well aware of how to care for tanks and a mod on that forum.
That is fine. I guess my stocks in sand's competition will go down since my propaganda isn't working. I have so much to gain by scaring people into not using it.
My point, and only point, is be aware that just because most people never have an issue, when you are choosing to use a sand that is not made to be used in an aquarium, you may be one of the unlucky few people who does develop one of the issues that can be associated with sand. I am simply suggesting to use a particular sand I have found to not cause any of the issiues so frequently associated with sand. If you still choose to buy cheapo sand just be observant of certain things to avoid any major issues.
That is fine. I guess my stocks in sand's competition will go down since my propaganda isn't working. I have so much to gain by scaring people into not using it.
My point, and only point, is be aware that just because most people never have an issue, when you are choosing to use a sand that is not made to be used in an aquarium, you may be one of the unlucky few people who does develop one of the issues that can be associated with sand. I am simply suggesting to use a particular sand I have found to not cause any of the issiues so frequently associated with sand. If you still choose to buy cheapo sand just be observant of certain things to avoid any major issues.
DragonFish71
Great white snark
Not to mention you are stuck on one brand of sand and push that one brand without giving credit to the experiences, other than bad, that others have had.
Some of us tend to try other things and will advise on what we have tried and experienced with these different substrates.
If you look at one of the replies I posted, I even posted a link for a sand I had tried and had bad results from as well as links for some good experiences. If I've tried it, whether it was good or bad, I will let someone know so they can make up their own mind about a product.
Some of us tend to try other things and will advise on what we have tried and experienced with these different substrates.
If you look at one of the replies I posted, I even posted a link for a sand I had tried and had bad results from as well as links for some good experiences. If I've tried it, whether it was good or bad, I will let someone know so they can make up their own mind about a product.
Fishguy2727
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I mean the problems that people frequently bring up as being associated with sand, whether they are rare or infrequent occurances, they are frequently associated with sand.
DragonFish71
Great white snark
It still doesn't fly.
Sorry, but even a non-chemist, barely made it through high-school, no college person like myself knows you can't blame just sand.
Sorry, but even a non-chemist, barely made it through high-school, no college person like myself knows you can't blame just sand.
Shadowraven
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Have to agree here. I can't really see that sand itself could be the culprit here. It isn't in any water soluble.
Now if there were a coating on it, or some other impurities somehow attached to the grains that were soluble, I could see that. But not pure sand. I can't see how that is even possible.
AFAIK the primary way that silica gets into water is from sodium silicate and I highly doubt that is in the sand. The only way I could see sand having any involvement is if it were rinsed in water high in sodium silicates. Then that coating could get into the water. But not the sand itself.
Fishguy2727
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That is fine. No one has to agree with me, but when you dump a bunch of silicate sand into a tank that didn't have problems and then have problems directly associated with excessive silicates, then those drastic problems suddenly stop as soon as you remove that silicate sand, that must be an extreme coincidence that multiple aquarists have experienced.
Anyone reading: Just be aware that although any particular tank has very low risk of any problems with PFS, there are people out there who have had problems with it. I personally suggest a particular brand because for about six years it has never given me a single issue. If you want a color other than light tan this is probably your best option. If you want light tan and need to stick to a budget, PFS is the best option for a sand not intended (and therefore priced) for aquarium use.
Anyone reading: Just be aware that although any particular tank has very low risk of any problems with PFS, there are people out there who have had problems with it. I personally suggest a particular brand because for about six years it has never given me a single issue. If you want a color other than light tan this is probably your best option. If you want light tan and need to stick to a budget, PFS is the best option for a sand not intended (and therefore priced) for aquarium use.
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