Sand?

[mfdrookie516]

sand is such a touchy subject around here lately...

 

[Amicus]

I am not trying to but in, but could problems arise from glitches in the processing? Perhaps from mining to bagging, like getting 1000 bad bags out of millions.

 

[DragonFish71]

That is fine. No one has to agree with me, but when you dump a bunch of silicate sand into a tank that didn't have problems and then have problems directly associated with excessive silicates, then those drastic problems suddenly stop as soon as you remove that silicate sand, that must be an extreme coincidence that multiple aquarists have experienced.

Anyone reading: Just be aware that although any particular tank has very low risk of any problems with PFS, there are people out there who have had problems with it. I personally suggest a particular brand because for about six years it has never given me a single issue. If you want a color other than light tan this is probably your best option. If you want light tan and need to stick to a budget, PFS is the best option for a sand not intended (and therefore priced) for aquarium use.

Seriously?

Did this person even stop to think that they removed the vast majority of cycled material that had already been through it's diatom outbreak when they did this switch-over therefore possibly causing an imbalance? Mix that with water, um hellooooooooooo, diatoms.

Before posting a warning like this, I would seriously suggest thinking through what contributing factors there were in this instance.


New substrate
New water (I'll guess maybe 50%)

That is a recipe for diatoms. Until the silicates are used up by the algae or diluted by water changes and the tank stabilizes, you will have a bloom.

Also, PFS can be found in other colors than white or tan. You have to be willing to research.


"
"Brown algae" (diatoms)

This is often the first algae to appear in a newly set-up tank, where conditions have yet to stabilise. It will often appear around the 2-12 week period, and may disappear as quickly as it arrived when the conditions stabilise after a couple of months. It is essential to minimise nutrient levels to ensure the algae disappears - avoid overfeeding and carry out the appropriate water changes, gravel and filter cleaning, etc. Limiting the light will not deter this algae, as it can grow at low lighting levels and will normally out-compete green algae under these conditions.
If brown algae appears in an established tank, check nitrate and phosphate levels. Increased water changes or more thorough substrate cleaning may be necessary. Using a phosphate-adsorbing resin will also remove silicates, which are important to the growth of this algae. However, as noted above, it is essentially impossible to totally eliminate algae with this strategy alone. Due to its ability to grow at low light levels, this algae may also appear in dimly lit tanks, where old fluorescent bulbs have lost much of their output. If a problem does occur, otocinclus catfish are known to clear this algae quickly, although you may need several for larger tanks, and they can be difficult to acclimatise initially.
There are some very plausible theories as to why this algae often appears in newly set up tanks and then later disappears. If the silicate (Si) to phosphate (P) ratio is high, then diatoms are likely to have a growth advantage over true algae types and Cyanobacteria. Some of the silicate may come from the tapwater, but it will also be leached from the glass of new aquaria, and potentially from silica sand/gravel substrates to some extent. Later, when this leaching has slowed, and phosphate is accumulating in the maturing tank, the Si ratio will change in favour of phosphate, which is likely to favour the growth of green algae instead. "


Algae control in the aquarium

 

[DragonFish71]

I am not trying to but in, but could problems arise from glitches in the processing? Perhaps from mining to bagging, like getting 1000 bad bags out of millions.

Of course there is always that chance.

 

[DragonFish71]

sand is such a touchy subject around here lately...

Only when folks cry wolf instead of conceding that what they are crying wolf about is a normal occurrence in any set-up.

 

[Shadowraven]

Also, PFS can be found in other colors than white or tan. You have to be willing to research.

Thanks for that. I DID look around but didn't see any. Now I know that I'm not wasting my time to look.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Basic google search reveals many people with established tanks who add silica sand and get a brown algae outbreak. Please don't accuse others of not researching when basic research can reveal a lot of support for the issue.

I also don't appreciate being told what the circumstances were in a situation you are not involved in. Please don't add details to support your theory. You cannot decide that the person has 50% new water and that was their issue. If you have to add details to prove your point you have nothing to say.

Again, you obviously wont believe me or anyone until it happens to you or someone you truly trust. So until that happens it is impossible. But whether you believe it or not it has happened.

I am done dragging this out. But being told that my experiences and the experiences of people I have talked to are worthless or simply wrong is disrespectful. That is not the attitude I want to promote on any forum. A forum is a place to share experiences so that everyone is better informed, not a place to share experiences and then be told that the experience is simply wrong.

I stated the experience of someone who tried to use PFS. This experience is not the norm, but it is there for anyone reading this thread to be aware of. Other than that I am done and dragging this out more is not productive for anyone.

 

[neilanh]

While it's ok to have differing opinions, it's not OK to attack one another. Keep this post on-topic or it will be closed.

 

[roydooms]

Even if I didn't participate in this thread I still subscribed to it. It is full of great information. Please don't erase this.

 

[Amicus]

I didn't think of that. I haven't seen it so can't say, but that would seem to make sense in sandblasting media.

If the edges are sharp, I personally would steer clear of it because of my corys. I have to see if I can manage to go look at some and let you know.

Me too, not sure about the edges of the material but I will look into too. I will also let you know what I find. Thanks.

 

[fort384]

Not sure specifically on sand blasting media material, but in my line of work we use plastic media blasting material for aircraft coatings removal, and the round smooth stuff yields much higher and uniform strip rates so I imagine that it would be a desirable property of sand blasting material as well. I could be wrong.

The black slag that bigjim uses is a beautiful substrate. Jet black but still kind of iridescent at the same time. It would definitely be worth looking into. I know he has kept a myriad of different species in his tanks with it, and I don't recall seeing any complaints about it being sharp or anything. Just heresay though on my part... I have no first hand experience with it.

 

[Amicus]

Yeah, I am not sure how it would do in a tank. I am an inspector and I am just talking about what I see at sites I go to. The majority of surfaces this is used on, that I see, is brick, mortar and steel. I would love to know Black Beauty and industrial quartz work as they would be two more options we all have.

 

[Shadowraven]

Not sure specifically on sand blasting media material, but in my line of work we use plastic media blasting material for aircraft coatings removal, and the round smooth stuff yields much higher and uniform strip rates so I imagine that it would be a desirable property of sand blasting material as well. I could be wrong.

The black slag that bigjim uses is a beautiful substrate. Jet black but still kind of iridescent at the same time. It would definitely be worth looking into. I know he has kept a myriad of different species in his tanks with it, and I don't recall seeing any complaints about it being sharp or anything. Just heresay though on my part... I have no first hand experience with it.

Thanks fort. If he uses it without trouble, we should be able to as well. The iridescence is part of what liked about the stuff I saw on-line.

 

[BigJim]

The black substrate I use that fort referenced is Black Blast coal slag blasting compound. I've got it in my 40B with GBRs, a betta, praecox rainbows, a raphael cat, and a pictus cat. The pictus is scaleless and isn't bothered by the Black Blast. I've also got Black Blast in my 5g RCS tank. I put maybe ten shrimp in and sold 50 out of that tank last month, so the shrimp obviously aren't bothered by substrate either.

Any plant I've put in the Black Blast grows well. The MSDS is very similar to the composition of the Aquariumplants.com house substrate for a planted tank. I also had zero issues with diatoms. At the moment I've got a hair algae problem, but that's because I decided to try PPS Pro dosing on the tank without CO2 injection. The water sprite and anacharis suck down the nitrates, leaving me with extra phosphates, hence the hair algae explosion.

The greatest part of all is I paid $8 for 50lb of the stuff at Menards! It's less dense than play sand or PFS, so 50lb goes a long way. I put about 40lb of it in my 40B to a depth of ~3" and I've still got a 2g bucket full. It also requires very little cleaning. I rinsed a few pounds of the Black Blast before adding it to the 40B and it was so clean that I just dumped the rest in the tank. A few of the grains floated, so I just skimmed them off the top with a net. It's worth looking into if you want black substrate but don't want to pay for EcoComplete or a similar substrate.

 

[fort384]

ahh, there it is, thanks Jim. It is a great looking substrate (see the avatar photo!)

 

[Shadowraven]

Thanks Jim! I was just getting ready to ask you how much you paid for it and then I saw it. $8 for 50# is CHEAP. That costs less than I usually pay for gravel. I'm looking into this stuff. Especially since you said you have cats and it hasn't bothered them.

 

[giggalz]

sand is such a touchy subject around here lately...

i seem to agree with you

 

[BigJim]

I was worried about the sharpness of the Black Blast when I bought it, but I ground it between my palms at the store and didn't feel any sharp points. When I got home, I ground play sand and Quickrete Medium sand between my palms for comparison and the Black Blast is slightly rougher than the Medium sand and about the same as the play sand. I've got cories on the Quickrete and khulis on the play sand, so I was pretty comfortable with the Black Blast.

 

[roydooms]

Do you guys have had any problem with white fuzz(fungus?) on the sand? What is it?

 

[Shadowraven]

What do you mean exactly by white fuzz. Only time I've seen anything like that on the substrate is when it was growing on something in the gravel. You you be more specific/descriptive?