serious burning inquiry" : recovering from ammonia burns

[ae123]

most of my fish are still alive and healthy, as far as i'm learning their mannerisms...after a month of using tapwater which i determined with my api test kit yesterday was at approximately .5ppm. could have been a lot worse. i was diluting that with soft water from another source, a very good source, if how much it cost the owner is any indication. about 1/2 and 1/2 mixture from my tap & the soft water.

anyway, the 4 mollies all seem to be healthy enough to be fighting of any diseases which may be present despite the fact that their skin appears to be very thin. note: very thin under regular 40 watt lightbulb. almost completely unnoticable under my flourescent tank light. ?. i think the 2 orange platys have thinned skin too, but its a bit harder to tell. these fish did great--never complained the whole time. tough cookies.

anyway II, my question is this: in addition to keeping water conditions where they should be, are there any proven, or accepted, recommended and/or good methods for encouraging the regrowth of scales which had eroded?

i'm very much hoping their inerternal mechanisms are functioning well, but only time will tell. as for now, i want to try and make sure those outer mechanisms functioning as best as can be expected after what they've been through.

suggestions & comments are very much appreciated.

 

[Tigroscr]

Your best bet IMO is pwc's at least 25% every week considering you have a 55g and filtration is very important and is your tank heated? What is your ammo reading right now?

 

[Tigroscr]

From looking at your profile I would recommend you get another filter and keep the existing so you have 2. You have a rather large pleco and they are cool but they also have HUGE bioloads, so IME you will need more filtration and PWC's. I have 75 gallon and large pleco and a Tiger Oscar I have 2 filters and I usually do 2 pwc's every week and vacuum as well.

 

[librarygirl]

Is the tank cycled now or is it still cycling? If your fish have ammonia burns it's b/c you aren't doing enough water changes to keep the ammonia levels down to safe levels while the tank cycles. There's a link in my signature: "new tank with fish;" give it a read and it'll help. If the tank is done cycling (if it is, how long has the cycle been done?) then hopefully time in clean water will heal the burns; just keep an eye on them for infection b/c that would need to be treated. Something like Stress Coat may help as it has aloe in it.

If the tank is still cycling you'll need to test the water daily and increase your water changes; large, frequent changes may be needed. Any time ammonia and/or nitrite are over .25, do a water change to get them down to as close to 0 as you can (if they are high, you may need to do a large or even back-to-back changes to get the levels down); same with nitrates over 20.

 

[ae123]

a bit more on my stock & situation may shed some light...

thank you both for your replies. i will consider getting another filter. i do water changes often, so nitrates are in check--i also feed sparsely and hardly any food just sits.

ok, so i'm sorry i took so long to reply.

current situation: fed some hard, red tetra tropical granules tonite--probably a few years old--which i inheritted with the tank.

by the way, i'm 99% sure the tank is cycled, but like i said i was adding small amount of ammonia from my tap water with my daily water changes which in turn was giving me ammonia readings which inturn was leading me to believe the tank was mini cycling.

when i first got the tank 3 or 4 months ago, it was just the pleco--pterygoblichthys pardalis by the photos i've searched through. it was just him until aug13, my birthday, my dad played a horrible prank on me with 1 baby catfish(maybe two inches), 3f platys & 1m, 3f mollies and 1m. within 36 hours the baby cat was dead--i saw the plec snaop at the baby cat before i went to bed that night--stressful. the next day he was dead with some fin rot i think and a slimy coat on him. the water was very cloudy.

i removed him. noticed also that some of the mollies had a cottony fungus or something which i assume, looking back, may have been columnaris rather than true fungus, on thier bodies--only a small patch each female. a female also had an eye covered with white film or so. the water to that point for the pleco had been soft water from my fathers house, not typically suitable for livebearers i've read, and was general hardness 75ppm or less i think.

between now and then, i had a female and male platy die. the female of dropsy--the pinecone symptoms were there and some of her scales were shedding so i hepled her with euthanol. both platys are very bloated now--one after feeding tonite is hovering as if concentrating hard on what is going on inside of her, much like the on that died had been. one molly who had been quite swollen several days go and got better was hovering the same way this evening and now swimming very slow. she does not in good spirits. the other two female mollies are fat but they have been that way, and have born fry and are behaving at least somewhat healthily--swimming upright.

that's the thing. this is my first tank so i'm not really sure how they should be acting--but if i were to venture a guess--maybe only the male molly is close to 100%. he's got a full and thick skin layer and is the most active, sharp in his swimming mannerisms.

anyway the pleco recieved what i thought was ich. that was three weeks ago--and since the mollies still had a whiteish color in spots on thier body and there was small white particles floating about--we decided at the pet store to treat the tank with rid ich plus, malachite green and formalin. it does not seem to have worked--though i can say that the tank had gotten clear of the floating white particles--based on the pleco had some stuff on him this evening. it looks like tiny white balls attatched by a short(less than 1mm)string. maybe that is what i had seen on him before and not the ich.

finally, and i know there is a lot missing in between the introduction of the live bearers and now, but i've tryed hit on things i thought would help in diagnosing. i may have to try something soon. and another reason why i say that is the fact that the fry are starting to look a bit bloated. i only started noticing this tonite as my eyes are not very well trainedhey to recognize irregularities in aquarium fish. they also are silver in the belly region. they started normal and gradually turn this way, eventually some of them have gray patches all over their bodies. they are active, eating all the time and swimming upright, albeit in short bursts--even more so the tiniest--and other than the discoloration, i think they look ok.

i guess i'll leave it at that for now. any thoughts? and i'll try to respond more promptly this time around. many, many thanks for your time.

 

[librarygirl]

Wow you do have a lot going on. If your fish are that sick, with spots on them and not moving, there are a lot of issues.

What is your water change schedule? How much and how often?
How much are you feeding? Do the fish eat it all or is there food leftover?
Do you have your own liquid test kit for the water?
What dechlorinator are you using?

First thing I'd do is a very large, 80% water change with temperature matched dechlorinated water. If you can get Prime, it's best to use; it's concentrated so you need to use less than other brands, it has stress coat/aloe in it to help with stress and healing, and it can detoxify toxins for up to 36-48 hours between water changes. Also vacuum your gravel/substrate with the water change to pick up any leftover food and waste at the bottom.

Next I'd get a different brand of food. Your food could be expired or not one your fish should eat. They may be suffering from swim bladder as well (it's hard to tell but it's possible). I'd give them a deshelled pea: get a frozen pea, thaw it in some warm water, take the skin off, mush it in between your fingers and put it into the tank. This will help with their digestion. The next day, fast them, don't feed them. After that, feed them once per day with very little of whatever new food you buy them (go with a quality flake or micro pellets).

With your new liquid test kit, test the water daily. If you can post your exact test results here that would help to see where your tank is in terms of cycling. If you have any ammonia and/or nitrite readings, your tank isn't cycled. You'll need to do water changes, sometimes daily, to keep the ammonia and/or nitrite UNDER .25 on the API Liquid test kit. Same with nitrate over 20. There's a link in my signature called "new tank with fish." It's possible it is cycled as you said, but it's still best to test your own water with a good test kit to see what's going on.

Also what size is your tank? The pleco you have is a Common pleco and needs a tank of at least 75 gallons. This could be the source of your problems if your tank is too small; the pleco is putting out more waste than your tank can handle. Either upgrade to a larger tank ASAP or return/rehome the Pleco right away.

It's possible the fungus or whatever it is is going to need to be treated. I'm not sure what it is so it's hard to diagnose. Is it cottony, mucousy, which fish have it and where? You also mentioned a possible eye disease, pop-eye? Most of these issues are caused by poor water quality, so that's where I'd start.

I hope some of this helps.

 

[ae123]

hi again. very nice of you to reply, though i donnot think my understanding of things transpired, in my own tank, to this point, is yet clear to you. i have been reading very much--i've found wetwebmedia to be most helpful as are some of the books i have, and have used them as a reference whenever i've encountered uncertainty. still, fish rearing, it is becoming apparent, is something i should have researched before just jumping into it. it's complex than a cat or bunny, you know?

your questions. 1. water change at least every other day for the past three which was required for the malachite green/formalin treatment. about 8-9 gallons each change out of the approx 45 gallons water in the tank. 2. sparse feeding. no leftovers. liquid test kit--ph: 7.5, ammonia: almost , if not, 0. 0 nitrite, <10 nitrate. to buy dH, kH test today. 3. dechlorinator aquanova plus and amquel plus. 4. tank 55 gallon
--suffices for current stock as far as i've read, though an extra 20 gallons or so might not hurt.

 

[Tigroscr]

Library Girl knows her stuff and gave you some EXCELLENT advice. Water changes are going to be your best friend in this hobby! You might have to do more than one in one day to get your ammonia down this is VITAL in the lives of your fish! Get the API liquid test kit ( about $30) but well worth it's price in gold! Unfortunately you will need to take the pleco back or rehome him to a bigger tank. How big is he now? Like she said the shelled peas works wonder for Bloat! Good luck to you! I hope all your fish make it!

 

[BillD]

Since you have an ammonia test kit, are you showing ammonia in the tank after a water change? It seems you have chloramine in your tap water, but regardless of what conditioner you are using, the filter should be able to handle the amount of ammonia released in the tap water. Mollies and platies do better in harder water so I would stop the RO.
I would agree with library girl that you should do a large water change, to clear out as many of the toxins of pathogens in the tank, regardless of what the test kits are telling you, which I just saw are very good. clean water is the key to success in the hobby. If your present filtration is keeping ammonia and nitrite levels at 0, you don't need another filter. Every hard surface in the tank becomes part of your bio filter

 

[ae123]

hey friends.

just got off the phone with a local man who has operated 30 tanks at once. he's coming over to check out my tank. wonderful news.

ok, so, big water change with gravel vac. good biology equals capacity to remove tap water ammonia--very cool. good parameters are prerequisite and if maintained will amount to more health per unit fish per unit tank per unit time.

i think i'm set for a bit. thank you Tig, librarygirl, BillD. PM me any time for any reason.

By the way what is RO? I like the idea of adding to pure water(or potassium softened water) whatever combination of minerals would be optimal for my stock. Maybe that is exactly what in my tapwater post conditioning. Dunno.

 

[librarygirl]

hey friends.

just got off the phone with a local man who has operated 30 tanks at once. he's coming over to check out my tank. wonderful news.

ok, so, big water change with gravel vac. good biology equals capacity to remove tap water ammonia--very cool. good parameters are prerequisite and if maintained will amount to more health per unit fish per unit tank per unit time.

i think i'm set for a bit. thank you Tig, librarygirl, BillD. PM me any time for any reason.

By the way what is RO? I like the idea of adding to pure water(or potassium softened water) whatever combination of minerals would be optimal for my stock. Maybe that is exactly what in my tapwater post conditioning. Dunno.

RO is reverse osmosis water. Most people use it for saltwater tanks, not so much in freshwater unless there's a reason. You'd need an RO unit, or use pure distilled water. if you did this though you'd have to use something like RO Right (by kent I think) to add back in the minerals that are stripped out; fish can't live in pure RO or distilled water. It's best not to mess with it unless there's a reason.

 

[Von Devilish]

i avoid these issues by using biozorb in one fx5 and charcoal in the other. i also run 3x filtration.

ie for example)
220 gallon tank
filtration -
6 - 1100 series power heads with undergravel filtration
2 fluval fx5 canister filters
2 power marine land 90 gallon powerfilters.

keep your tank at 3x filtration . 100 gallon tank, 300 gallons filtration minimum

 

[ae123]

someone told me the right amount of marine salt mix, epsom salt and baking soda make a better environment for livebearers, mollies in particular. i would make my water slightly brackish if not for my catfish, based on his recommendation. i think i'll ask my local friend when he comes over.

there is a possibility i may be acquiring a few more tanks with his supervision. i'd definitely have some more options then. at the same time, i feel a bit tired and underprepared to deal with all the responsibilities that come with raising fish in an optimal environment, and by that i mean, i'm not sure i know enough to give these critters a good & healthy place to live. i may never personally know enough, and may always be dependent on finding good advice. that doesn't seem optimal.

everything was a lot simpler when it was just me and the pleco. a pellet or two every other day. filter change once every month or so. maybe i'll get rid of the rest of them and just stick to a fish or so. my level of committment, longterm, to this hobby is not yet decided, but for now, it's great to know i've got a knowlegable individual who appears willing to handle my case, longterm if need be.

i think my filter is supposed to rotate 340 per/hr. 45 gallons of water most of the time. bit more for the plec, but perhaps not, for my feeding method. it's a very clean tank & i don't mind the water changes. even when things are back to normal i'll probably still do at least weekly water changes and continue to feed sparsely, you know, enough but not too much, or so.

something is going to have to happen--more filtration & aeration or another tank once these
--once these fry all start to get bigger.