To Salt Or Not To Salt?

[RightTurnClyde]

What's the current consensus on adding some aquarium salt to a freshwater community tank?

I've heard some say it can be beneficial (helpful for a good slime coat and healthy gills.) But I also just read an opinion that unless the fish are all live bearers, it puts undo stress on them and can lead to unhealthy fish if used all the time.

Opinions (or better yet, cited facts) please! Thank you in advance.

 

[mattcham]

Molly's do not need added salt in water. However there is a benefit to adding salt. I don't want to start a debate but if you research the cure for ich and many other parasites you will find that salt and high temperature of 80+ degrees is a common denominator.

Salt is cheap, doesn't do much harm, and is easy to monitor with hydrometer. Just check to make sure all your species are tolerant of salt. And that you don't fluctuate salt concentrations too much during water changes or that will add stress and defeat the purpose.

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[Coryluv]

I'm in the no salt group. Of course I keep tetras and corys so I don't use salt medicinally no less as a prophylactic.

In my opinion no salt unless there is a good reason for it. The evidence I've seen shows there may be a reason to use salt for livebearers, hence a "good" reason. And no salt unless the species you keep can tolerate it. So the answer is very species dependent.

Also my opinion is to go slowly when adding salt and make sure it doesn't have additives.

 

[Coyne]

I think the consensus is that there is no consensus.

FWIW, I recently read an article in April's Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine about live bearers and in it the author touched on what he called "The Salt Myth". Basically he was trying to dispel the notion that all live bearers "needed" salt. Instead, he says that wild caught fish should be kept in the same conditions that they were living in while in the wild. This can range from pure freshwater to a complete marine environment. Since most of us aren't keeping wild caught fish, he suggested concentrating on proper water conditions instead of salinity.

 

[RightTurnClyde]

Thanks. I've been very unscientific about it so far. I have a silver Molly along with zebra danios and cardinal tetras. I consistently add a about a teaspoon of salt to every 5 gallons that I change. For no real reason other than I thought it helped the fish stay healthy. I want to get Cories and some shrimp soon, so I guess I better stop doing that. I had some Ich develop anyway, so I guess I wasn't preventing any parasites.

I don't know if it's related, but everyone except the Molly has developed colorless, occasionally distended bellies. I think that may be due to over feeding.

 

[mattcham]

I have successfully bred literally thousands of mollies with no salt. Salt is not necessary if the fish have been accustomed to freshwater. For fish farm or pond operations, salt is a pain to manage and is unnecessary.

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[pip walters]

As folk will know, I advocate the use of salt as a stress reducer. The dose is low, 0.3%, which equates to approximately one tablespoon to 5 US gallons. Thhis is considered the correct level for effective osmoregulation in carps and goldfish and is used regularly in fish farming, especially during transportation.

The dose for treating ich is even less 0.05 - 0.1%, used in conjunction with temperature of 30C maintained for three weeks.

Mollies can be kept in brackish conditions, which means using salt produced for marine species, not the general aquarium salt used for medicating etc. However, in hard alkaline conditions, salt is not necessary. In softwater conditions with lower pH mollies will be more susceptible to health problems.

Salt is a very effective treatment against flukes, trichodina, chilodonella and other ectoparasites when used as a short term dip of 15 to 25 grams per litre for up to half an hour, but many species may not tolerate it. I have used this treatment on Peters elephant nose, a very sensitive fish when it comes to water quality, with no problem.

 

[mattcham]

I advocate the use of salt as a stress reducer. The dose is low, 0.3%, which equates to approximately one tablespoon to 5 US gallons.

The dose for treating ich is even less 0.05 - 0.1%, used in conjunction with temperature of 30C maintained for three weeks.

Is this correct? All the ich treatment FAQs seem to recommend between 1 TEAspoon per gallon to 1 TABLEspoon per gallon. I do not know if higher concentration is better.



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[anteatergoanna]

I was using salt, but have removed it slowly from my tank. I have clown loaches and they aren't tolerant to salt. I have had ich and parasites in my fish whilst there was salt in the tank and it did nothing in getting rid of either condition. I guess it depends on the fish that you keep.

 

[BBradbury]

Hello Right...

Salt is a good additive to the tank water. I've used it for 10 years or so in my large, planted tanks, with what I believe are good results. Salt has a number of benefits especially for Livebearers, like Guppies, Swordtails, Platys and Mollies. It supplies healthful minerals, reduces the harmful effects of ammonia and nitrite produced from fish wastes, calms stressed fish by easing the breathing process and many if not all of the pathogens that can infect fish don't tolerate even traces of aquarium salt in the tank water.

I've kept a number of different fish and shrimp over the years and have used salt in all my tanks.

It's up to the water keeper. I think it helps.

B

 

[jlk]

Is this correct? All the ich treatment FAQs seem to recommend between 1 TEAspoon per gallon to 1 TABLEspoon per gallon. I do not know if higher concentration is better.



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Its not correct. A .3% salinity level is 11.4grams of salt per gallon or approximately 2.5teaspoons per gallon (depending on grain size of salt). A .1% salinity level is 3.8 grams of salt per gallon or slightly less than 1teaspoon per gallon. A .3% salinity level is the accepted dosage rate for treating ich although it may be raised as high as .5% in difficult to treat cases.

Please read the links below and the informational links posted within them as it will provide everyone with more information on the science and myth behind the use of salt.

Salt magic | The Skeptical Aquarist

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/is-aquarium-salt-needed-227851.html

 

[pip walters]

Its not correct. A .3% salinity level is 11.4grams of salt per gallon or approximately 2.5teaspoons per gallon (depending on grain size of salt). A .1% salinity level is 3.8 grams of salt per gallon or slightly less than 1teaspoon per gallon. A .3% salinity level is the accepted dosage rate for treating ich although it may be raised as high as .5% in difficult to treat cases.

Please read the links below and the informational links posted within them as it will provide everyone with more information on the science and myth behind the use of salt.

Salt magic | The Skeptical Aquarist

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/is-aquarium-salt-needed-227851.html

Apologies. JLK is correct. Not sure how I got confused here as I have posted this correctly in the past! Must be my age.

The percentage solutions I suggest are correct and when dosing anything you shouldn't really use something as vague as teaspoons or tablespoons.

The quantities needed to treat ich seem to vary depending what you read. If I can find the scientific info I have read recently, I will post more details. I tend not to trust hobby based info as I have found through experience that the facts sometimes get lost in the system. You know how it is, one person posts, someone disagrees, then later it gets posted with a slight variation as 'new' knowledge, often by the person who disagreed in the first place!

EDIT: I found the paper I was reading - the dosages I suggested of 0.05 to 0.1% salt by volume are those suggested following studies done by the university of florida when researching the control of the parasites in recirculating systems.

 

[RightTurnClyde]

Awesome info. This what I was hoping for. Feel free to keep the discussion going. Since I already have a PH of 7.8 and fairly hard water, I think I might start phasing out the small amount of salt I've been adding unless I need to treat for Ich. And even then I might just try heat only at first.

 

[jetajockey]

Hello Right...

Salt is a good additive to the tank water. I've used it for 10 years or so in my large, planted tanks, with what I believe are good results. Salt has a number of benefits especially for Livebearers, like Guppies, Swordtails, Platys and Mollies. It supplies healthful minerals, reduces the harmful effects of ammonia and nitrite produced from fish wastes, calms stressed fish by easing the breathing process and many if not all of the pathogens that can infect fish don't tolerate even traces of aquarium salt in the tank water.

I've kept a number of different fish and shrimp over the years and have used salt in all my tanks.

It's up to the water keeper. I think it helps.

B

Salt, as in NaCl, is only one mineral, so what other 'healthful' minerals is it supplying? And what about NaCl is healthful? The inhibition of nitrite toxicity via salt use is well known, but the use of salt is a band-aid to a temporary problem, since nitrites do not perpetually sit in a system. And how does salt reduce the harmful effects of ammonia?

How does salt make fish breathe easier? Is this an osmotic regulation thing? And if so, why not mention that the term 'salt' is being used in a very generic way here. Have a look at electrolytes and how 'salts' help. Basic table salt is on this list, but it's only one among other 'salts' that perform this function. Potassium, magnesium, and calcium are among them.

And the thing about pathogens being intolerable of salt is just outright wrong, unless there are no pathogens in brackish and saltwater systems? There are also many pathogens that need antibiotics or some other sort of heavy treatment apart from salt to deal with.

Not trying to be blunt, but this is exactly how these longtime myths and misinformation gets perpetuated. Euryhaline fish can sometimes benefit from a brackish environment (not the same as dumping aquarium salt in a tank), but in nearly all cases people do not stock their tanks based on different fishes ability to tolerate salt water. So why subject the fish to it when they don't need it?

Re: the OP - What you should be asking is WHY do the people that use salt, use it? Truth is, there's not much substance to it other than old wives tales or a misunderstanding of the basic science behind the concept.

Again, we are not talking about using salt as a medication, but rather as a water conditioner. They are two totally different subjects.

 

[Delapool]

Out of interest does anyone know if salt is used in fish transport anymore? And why still used or not?


http://www2.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/SALTTRANS.htm

 

[jetajockey]

Yes people still use it, along with methylene blue and sometimes tranquilizers. One purpose is to reduce nitrite toxicity since a buildup of fish waste is inevitable.

 

[Delapool]

I'm wondering if any short-term vs long-term salt toxicity has been looked at for this topic? From the article salt sounds great to reduce energy demands to reduce salt loss. Sounds good! Also it was interesting to see 77% of the salt in blood is sodium and chloride. I had read another article which suggested just lift gh for example.

Although it is just referring to transport not long term salt dosing. And for this thread I think we want to know on long term salt dosing.

I'm not sure nitrite would be an issue in transport from the way it reads. I can't see how nitrite would get processed from ammonia?

It seems dosing to 0.9% salt solution is suggested and that is well above anything I've done in a hospital tank. I'd say more like 0.1% (a teaspoon per gallon). I've noted this mainly just in case my calcs are out.

Assuming I'm correct in calcs, the almost 1% salt level seems high for long term? Another article suggests kidney failure from long term salt dosing but didn't say at what level.

Plants seem easy to tell if too much salt. How would you tell if there is a chronic problem with salt dosing for fish? Would it be organ failure and death or could the fish limp on so to speak. If its organ failure that would at least confirm to me that it is harmful long term at whatever dosage.

 

[mattcham]

A hydrometer would help because after 100 or more water changes the true concentration of salt will become subjectively indeterminate.

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[Delapool]

That's a good point. I've been looking for articles but most are very short time frames for salt toxicity.

 

[BBradbury]

Hello jjock...

Apologies for not getting back to you earlier. Well, na is sodium and cl is chlorine, both are elements since we're nitpicking a little. Aquarium salt inhibits the intake of nitrogen by the fishes' gills, so they can't as easily be damaged by forms of nitrogen like ammonia and nitrite. By easing the stress on the gill tissues, the fish is calmer, so they breath more easily. Granted large, frequent water changes will eliminate this water problem.

Aquarium salt has been used for decades as a treatment for various diseases associated with fish scales or skin, if you will. It encourages mucus production that removes parasites inside the gills and other fish body parts.

You can be blunt if you like, but salt is far from a myth. The old timey water keepers have used nacl for a very long time, especially with livebearing fish, one of my favs. Your term "wives' tale" is based on quite a bit of fact, so I wouldn't dismiss all of it.

As I stated earlier, the use of salt is up to the water keeper. Just didn't want you and anyone else to think my statements had absolutely no backup.

Good talking with you, hope I answered most of your concerns.

B