Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

[RRP1501]

All is good now, I think. The water smells normal and everyone's swimming peacefully. I lost 18 fry so it wasn't to bad, could of been a complete loss. I think our water here got affected by all the rain lately. Don't know if they added stuff, but shouldn't the RO/DI filter taken it all out. There's also a alkaline/ionizer filter on it to put back the beneficial elements in the water. Oh well!


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[Andy Sager]

Well guys, I've got a problem with my fry. It's 2:53 AM and I just did a 75%water change. I got up at 2:00 for some reason but didn't know why. I smelled a strong sulphur odor when I walked past the tank. Looked inside and all the fry where bunched up in the corner behind the filter. So I did the change and it smells better. I'm completely confused. I did a 50% yesterday and smelled sulphur but thought it was coming up from the drain. Must not of been. I added some salt in the tank and have said a bunch of prayers for them. I'll do another change in the morning. They're swimming around a little more but I have no clue what happened. I use RO/DI water and the filter and water checked out okay. It's all in Gods hands right now. Just hope all will be ok!


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Angelfish fry usually bunch together at night for protection so that may not have been the cause for this. That said, this is just one of the reasons why larger water changes can have devastating results versus multiple smaller water changes. When you don't control what it is your water, you risk adding a lot of bad things at one time with larger water changes. When you do smaller changes more often, the fish have a chance to either adjust to the change or show you they are not happy but without dying. You then have options as to what to do. There are very few options for a dead fish.
Just something to think about.

 

[Andy Sager]

In recent years, at the suggestion of a business mentor of mine, I've taken to not watching the news as the news has become more stories of bad news than good news. ( This was a conscious shift in reporting by newspapers and televised reporting.) For me, the only news I need to know is my local weather and any possible hurricanes or storms coming my way. Today, I needed to take a friend for a Dr. appointment and imagine my surprise when I saw on the news the devastation in S. Carolina from all the rain yesterday. I know of at least 1 member here( Mr. Fisher) who is in an effected area and wanted to let him and any other members effected know that my thoughts and prayers go out to you all and I hope you all are safe and are cared for.
If any of you are able to, please post here to let us all know you are safe and sound. Thanks.

 

[RRP1501]

Angelfish fry usually bunch together at night for protection so that may not have been the cause for this. That said, this is just one of the reasons why larger water changes can have devastating results versus multiple smaller water changes. When you don't control what it is your water, you risk adding a lot of bad things at one time with larger water changes. When you do smaller changes more often, the fish have a chance to either adjust to the change or show you they are not happy but without dying. You then have options as to what to do. There are very few options for a dead fish.

Just something to think about.

Andy, I only did a small change yesterday. 5 gallons. When I was drawing the water it smelled foul, but it usually goes away if I let it sit for an hour or so. The whole tank just kept getting stronger and stronger smelling. Never seen that before. I had 3 snails in there to help with the waste but they died too. The water from the tap smelled bad too. Sometimes the rain affects our water here on the river. I did the large change at 2:00AM just to try and get whatever was fouling it up. Almost immediately the fry started swimming around. I've seen them bunch up at night and this wasn't that either. I could see them stressing out. When I got up at 6:00, all was good. I'll just know not to use water if it smells bad again. Got my 53 up, well at least stand built and on it. I'll have the water in it tomorrow. I have an extra canister filter on my 55 that I'll use on it. Should help a lot with set up.


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[RRP1501]

If everyone can say a prayer for all those affected by the recent storms, please do. Prayer is one of the strongest things we can do for others!


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[Andy Sager]

Andy, I only did a small change yesterday. 5 gallons. When I was drawing the water it smelled foul, but it usually goes away if I let it sit for an hour or so. The whole tank just kept getting stronger and stronger smelling. Never seen that before. I had 3 snails in there to help with the waste but they died too. The water from the tap smelled bad too. Sometimes the rain affects our water here on the river. I did the large change at 2:00AM just to try and get whatever was fouling it up. Almost immediately the fry started swimming around. I've seen them bunch up at night and this wasn't that either. I could see them stressing out. When I got up at 6:00, all was good. I'll just know not to use water if it smells bad again. Got my 53 up, well at least stand built and on it. I'll have the water in it tomorrow. I have an extra canister filter on my 55 that I'll use on it. Should help a lot with set up.


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Sorry, I misunderstood HOWEVER, this kinda works into what I was saying. If you lost so many with just changing a small percentage of the water, imagine what would probably have happened if you had done a large water change with bad water.

If you know you have occasional issues with the water, you might want to set up some bins or plastic garbage cans with good water ( when you know it's good) so that you know you always have good water to use. If there is a problem with the water, say after a rain, you would know from the smell ( hopefully ) so you wouldn't store that water and wait for a better time to refill your containers.
Just an idea for ya.

 

[sheilak]

prayer for people affected by floods

prayer said

 

[RRP1501]

Sorry, I misunderstood HOWEVER, this kinda works into what I was saying. If you lost so many with just changing a small percentage of the water, imagine what would probably have happened if you had done a large water change with bad water.



If you know you have occasional issues with the water, you might want to set up some bins or plastic garbage cans with good water ( when you know it's good) so that you know you always have good water to use. If there is a problem with the water, say after a rain, you would know from the smell ( hopefully ) so you wouldn't store that water and wait for a better time to refill your containers.

Just an idea for ya.

That's a pretty good idea Andy. Thanks, I think I will do just that! It good to know there are people out there willing to give good advice.


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[Andy Sager]

I currently have 3 more chances to see if things are getting better. All of the parent raised eggs have been eaten so no new news there. Strangely, I have one pair, the blushing & Barred Marble veil, that have now spawned 2 times. These are his first for sure and the Blushing female has produced many, almost too many, fry so I knew she was good. I've been letting many of her spawns stay with the pair as I didn't really need more and none have made it so I was curious and decided to pull this last spawn. So far, I am glad I did that. Hatch today had to be close to 95%. This is amazing as usually about 30% of her eggs, when she takes care of them, are white in 24 hours and gone by 48. So hopefully these will be swimmers as the new male is a super veil so I should get some multiple veils out of this if they swim.
The other chances are from the F1 Marbles and 1/2 black pair #3. I was a bit surprised with the marble spawn as the eggs stayed clear up to hatch day. A small percentage of them hatched and the rest went white. This IS only their third spawn so not panicing yet but I thought it strange. The 1/2 Black eggs are also much smaller than the others for some reason. I only got a small hatch out of the spawn but that's okay. I just need some swimmers.
The other 1/2 black spawn is still doing well. They are getting bigger and eating well. I put the 4 plecos from the last spawn in with them and still have 3 alive. I'm going to try a different colored tube for the next pleco spawn and see if that has any effect on the outcome.

 

[Andy Sager]

Everything still seems to be going in the right direction with one exception. Seems the Blushing- BMV fry are having issues attaching to things. The fry are all in a 1 gal jar but there seems to be a number of them that are free floating in the current rather than being on the ground or attaching to the slate/ airline/airstone or glass wall. Could this be why the parents always eat the eggs? Maybe they know something I don't? It will be interesting to see if these do become free swimming.

 

[Mr Fisher]

Just wanted to say thank you for the thoughts and prayers. I was very fortunate that my neighborhood is on very high ground and I sustained no damage to my property or myself.

The damage here is much worse than that we received from hurricane Hugo. Everyone is working together and things will turn out well as always.


Concerning my fish, Andy, are fish that were once stunted and grow out viable for spawning? I have about 6 from my old gold pair that are getting close to breeder size and just didn't want to get my hopes up.

 

[Mr Fisher]

This season was a bust for me somewhat. But I am moving forward with getting my breeding program back on track. I had a family situattion that prevented me from providing the level of attention I should of to my stock, but thankfully it is over. So I'm back into the swing of things

 

[Andy Sager]

Just wanted to say thank you for the thoughts and prayers. I was very fortunate that my neighborhood is on very high ground and I sustained no damage to my property or myself.

The damage here is much worse than that we received from hurricane Hugo. Everyone is working together and things will turn out well as always.


Concerning my fish, Andy, are fish that were once stunted and grow out viable for spawning? I have about 6 from my old gold pair that are getting close to breeder size and just didn't want to get my hopes up.

So glad to see you are okay Kris. I know how hurricane and storm aftermaths can be so I feel for ya. Thankfully you are alive and well so everything else is "as it comes" status.

In my recent research trying to figure out my own situation with the fry, I came upon a few posts about how the fish today seem to have multiple stages of growth. In some cases, the stronger fish mature faster but once they were removed from the school, the other fish then would grow to "normal" size . I saw this with my Bettas as well. In other cases, the fish were genetically stunted and never grew to appropriate size. These fish are not ones you want to carry forward genetically. So, if your stunted fish have grown up to a "normal" size, I would feel okay breeding them. Keep in mind that if they produce a lot of runts that stay small, you may want to discontinue that line.

 

[Mr Fisher]

So glad to see you are okay Kris. I know how hurricane and storm aftermaths can be so I feel for ya. Thankfully you are alive and well so everything else is "as it comes" status.

In my recent research trying to figure out my own situation with the fry, I came upon a few posts about how the fish today seem to have multiple stages of growth. In some cases, the stronger fish mature faster but once they were removed from the school, the other fish then would grow to "normal" size . I saw this with my Bettas as well. In other cases, the fish were genetically stunted and never grew to appropriate size. These fish are not ones you want to carry forward genetically. So, if your stunted fish have grown up to a "normal" size, I would feel okay breeding them. Keep in mind that if they produce a lot of runts that stay small, you may want to discontinue that line.

Seems to be the case with these as well. I think Imma see if any pair up as per your PM and do some trading with others. Trying to get things lined up for winter.

I also have a strange question for you and possibly others, how warm is your tap water on cold? Reason I ask is mine used to be around 68-70 which has been my experience for most over the years. But after the plumbing redo of my community it's pretty much 78-80 on cold now. I figure water is either

A. Being drawn off the reservoir

B. They didn't bury the pipes deep enough

Just one of those weird things I'm curious about.

 

[Andy Sager]

Seems to be the case with these as well. I think Imma see if any pair up as per your PM and do some trading with others. Trying to get things lined up for winter.

I also have a strange question for you and possibly others, how warm is your tap water on cold? Reason I ask is mine used to be around 68-70 which has been my experience for most over the years. But after the plumbing redo of my community it's pretty much 78-80 on cold now. I figure water is either

A. Being drawn off the reservoir

B. They didn't bury the pipes deep enough

Just one of those weird things I'm curious about.

I'm on a private well and my cold water isn't all that cold. Being that the bladder is above ground and the water is stored in there first, it is subject to the outside temps more than a supplied water line would be. I do get fluctuations in temp due to this however and my winter water is a little cooler than my summer water. So far, the difference is only enough to get my Angels to breed but not cold enough to get my cories to breed. That should tell you something.

 

[Mr Fisher]

I'm on a private well and my cold water isn't all that cold. Being that the bladder is above ground and the water is stored in there first, it is subject to the outside temps more than a supplied water line would be. I do get fluctuations in temp due to this however and my winter water is a little cooler than my summer water. So far, the difference is only enough to get my Angels to breed but not cold enough to get my cories to breed. That should tell you something.

explains a lot, my spawning went kaput when the spring time water hit.

I'm back to being excited about breeding them. I just got finished cleaning up the bow front tank I had a pair in. Checking out the stock available on ebay and aquabid, might check the LFS later in the week. I need to sit down and order some food.

 

[PoppaRyno]

Ive got some good pinoys and platinums available.

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[RRP1501]

explains a lot, my spawning went kaput when the spring time water hit.



I'm back to being excited about breeding them. I just got finished cleaning up the bow front tank I had a pair in. Checking out the stock available on ebay and aquabid, might check the LFS later in the week. I need to sit down and order some food.

Mr Fisher, I went through the same thing you all are going through back in 1997 in Grand Forks, ND. Lost my house and my aquarium didn't survive either. So if you want a few, I have some Angel Fry that should be available no later than mid November. If you want, PM me and I'll send you 4 to get started again. Just a thought.


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[Mr Fisher]

Ive got some good pinoys and platinums available.

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Mr Fisher, I went through the same thing you all are going through back in 1997 in Grand Forks, ND. Lost my house and my aquarium didn't survive either. So if you want a few, I have some Angel Fry that should be available no later than mid November. If you want, PM me and I'll send you 4 to get started again. Just a thought.


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Thank you both, I'll be in touch as things progress.

 

[PoppaRyno]

Anytime sir. Its all abt helping those in the hobby.

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