Wigglers At Last!!!!!

[Bdonaldson]

the brine shrimp are most nutritious within 12 hours of hatching, so dont start them til the day before you need them or they are being wasted... they dont really keep as the yolk sack they hatch with is the nutritious part... also, my pair is first timers also, my male and a small silver female... a few of the wigglers are swimming out but seem 2 be tethered 2 the rock... hopefully swimmers soon... tank is up with sponge prefilter and baffle as i dont have $ 2 buy a sponge filter ATM, but hopefully soon!

Ok thanks for the info. Good luck with your wigglers.

 

[Andy Sager]

my silver female is pretty small also, part of why im lettting them tend fry on their own for a bit... but i have a question... i have had babies for 5 days now, but they are still attached 2 the rock... yolk sacks are almost gone, and they are much more active, could a young mother be the reason behind this? or is it something else? tank is 80 degrees, parents are seperated from other fish, and params are normal, but i need 2 do a wc soon, and plan on doing one as soon as i can remove the fry...

This could be ( and I stress COULD be) part of the problems with domesticated Angels today. Repetative inbreeding is known to cause dwarfism which in turn is past along the more generations of inbreeding that goes on. This is from breeders not bringing in "new blood" every few generations to keep the master genetic code strong. Whether intential or unintentional, not adding outside genetics to a line will have disasterous results at some point. (You and I may be witnessing this point ) It's why there are so many fish on the market with short or bent fins. Breeders not caring about the genetic lines kept breeding deformed fish and putting them in the marketplace. Unsuspecting hobbyists come and buy the fish and breed them to another fish without knowing that they are breeding to a sibling thus creating this genetic mess. In my recent case, I was told by the store owners that they each got their Angels from a local breeder. Since I bought 2 fish (of the same color) from the stores, I have to assume that these fish are siblings or, at the very least, from the same parents. These are not good fish to breed together. Considering that the only fish of mine that right now is big enough ( in my eyes) to breed is my straight Koi, my Silver spawning is already a disappointment. I bought her when she was about a 1/2 dollar size so that should have been too small to breed for a few months. It's only been a few weeks since I've been back home with her. ( You see where I'm going with this? )

What you are seeing with wigglers not free swimming 5 days after hatching may be the results of these poor genetics in your fish. Not knowing the exact age of your fish doesn't help eliminate this as a possibility. Being young should not be the cause of this. ( e.g.: Is the pregnancy time of a 13 year old human different in length from a 25 year old? ) I'd also check the accuracy of your thermometer. At 80 degrees, fry usually become free swimming in about 3 days. If yours is accurate and this is the results of your spawn, I'd consider not breeding this pair again and try to find a much larger proven breeding male to get the size genetics back into the line. (That's my plan if mine doesn't start growing more.)

A long winded answer I know but I think the crux of the matter in your case.

 

[Andy Sager]

For anyone really interested in the genetics of Angelfish, this is a link to a series of articles on how Angelfish genetics work. I read most of these when they first were published which is why I tend to be more discriminating with my culling. You may become that too once you read all the articles
FINARAMA: Pterophyllum Angelfish | Dr. Joanne Norton's Angelfish Genetic Articles

Happy reading

 

[oscarchic11]

i have swimmers! the parents keep trying 2 stick them back 2 the rock! lol my male is big, with beautiful veil fins, not full length yet as he is still regrowing from poor conditions before i got him, but getting longer all the time! and the female is completely unrelated... the only other females i have he doesnt like the larger that i HAD him with before (3 spawns in the divided side with him and her didnt fertalize any...) and the other is the slightly smaller sister 2 the girl he is with now... the babies will be moved later 2night once all are free as some are still tethered, but the dad is pulling them off... should i feed them 2morrow? it will be day 7 since hatching.... or 2day? i will have BBS ready in a few hours...

 

[oscarchic11]

fry have been removed, left the parents with about 10, and now momma is searching for her missing babies... and the dad was ferociously attacking the hose...

 

[bob mccoy]

if they are free swimming and there little yellow yolk sacks on there bellys are gone then feed away. small amounts 3 to 4 times a day and suck out left overs. do daily pwc in the fry tank

 

[Bdonaldson]

I went to the Virginia mom&pop store that I stumbled across and bought three Angelfish, two flying fox, I small pleco and five rummy nose tetras. I have to say that I really Like the store but not to impressed with this particular salespersons netting ability. He did ok with all of the fish except for the rummy nose. I couldn't believe my eyes when he was trying to net them. The tank had a couple of dead ones in Their which is more than Likely from his pore netting skills. Ugh.

 

[oscarchic11]

Babies!!! 7 days...

 

[Moobs99]

Good news I have a new pair ? got them both from different shires so this is also the first time iv made a pair!!! They have been cleaning the intake pipe of the filter for a few days and don't have any more spare tanks free so ill be getting one at the weekend lol they were in there with 3 other angels, I got home to them laying eggs and the male doing his thing, but now iv removed the other angels the male is not bothered with them! He's at the other end of the tank! Have I spooked him ? The female is doing her job but just worried iv spooked him ? Seeing its there first time I don't expect them to be any eggs 2noz as its there first together

 

[oscarchic11]

The pair that gave me my babies i have now it was a first spawn and he picked her out of 3 females who are in their own side of the now divided tank about 2/3 of the spawn died, and they have been great with the rest!!! Hope it works out!!! In the mean time, a breeders fav sight when dealing with babies.... fat orange bellies full of BBS!!!

 

[shawnleon]

Congrats oscarchic11, I'm following along and enjoying.

 

[shawnleon]

Even though I am days late with a reply, wanted to say I agree with Andy's informative post. Many of the concerned breeders I follow are adamant about identifying swap partners with high quality fish to ensure fresh genetic code is bred into their lines without compromising the traits they're breeding for, such as color or fin length. To help ensure it's really fresh blood they are anal about tracking the lineage of fish when and where they can. I have a long way to go because the way breeders on TAF-II manage their breeding programs is amazing.

This could be ( and I stress COULD be) part of the problems with domesticated Angels today. Repetative inbreeding is known to cause dwarfism which in turn is past along the more generations of inbreeding that goes on. This is from breeders not bringing in "new blood" every few generations to keep the master genetic code strong. Whether intential or unintentional, not adding outside genetics to a line will have disasterous results at some point. (You and I may be witnessing this point ) It's why there are so many fish on the market with short or bent fins. Breeders not caring about the genetic lines kept breeding deformed fish and putting them in the marketplace. Unsuspecting hobbyists come and buy the fish and breed them to another fish without knowing that they are breeding to a sibling thus creating this genetic mess. In my recent case, I was told by the store owners that they each got their Angels from a local breeder. Since I bought 2 fish (of the same color) from the stores, I have to assume that these fish are siblings or, at the very least, from the same parents. These are not good fish to breed together. Considering that the only fish of mine that right now is big enough ( in my eyes) to breed is my straight Koi, my Silver spawning is already a disappointment. I bought her when she was about a 1/2 dollar size so that should have been too small to breed for a few months. It's only been a few weeks since I've been back home with her. ( You see where I'm going with this? )

What you are seeing with wigglers not free swimming 5 days after hatching may be the results of these poor genetics in your fish. Not knowing the exact age of your fish doesn't help eliminate this as a possibility. Being young should not be the cause of this. ( e.g.: Is the pregnancy time of a 13 year old human different in length from a 25 year old? ) I'd also check the accuracy of your thermometer. At 80 degrees, fry usually become free swimming in about 3 days. If yours is accurate and this is the results of your spawn, I'd consider not breeding this pair again and try to find a much larger proven breeding male to get the size genetics back into the line. (That's my plan if mine doesn't start growing more.)

A long winded answer I know but I think the crux of the matter in your case.

 

[Bdonaldson]

Well I lost the babies from my Pearlscale pair. I guess it just wasn't a good batch of babies. I think next time I will let the parents raise them.

 

[oscarchic11]

Aww im sorry 2 hear it!!! My babies are thriving so far!!! Everyone is up and schooling in the corner this morning instead of hanging out on the bottom like they have been. They have grown 2!!! Mine are about 10 days old.

 

[Bdonaldson]

Thank you. I am glad to hear that your babies are doing well. I hope I have a better hatch next time.

 

[oscarchic11]

I only got about 50 fry from this hatch, and have lost a few so far... but the ones i have are growing bigger and stronger every day!!! The good thing about angels is they like 2 make lots of babies!!! Which means you get lots of chances 2 get it right!!!

 

[Bdonaldson]

Thank you. I really appreciate everyone on this thread. I truly enjoy reading about everyone's experiences.

 

[Moobs99]

Looks like momma is playing hide the wigglers lol first time iv had a fish do this! Bet I wake up in the morning and there moved again

 

[shawnleon]

Looks like momma is playing hide the wigglers lol first time iv had a fish do this! Bet I wake up in the morning and there moved again

Lol... My pair did this frequently and each time my initial thought was, "Oh Gosh, they ate them! I should've removed them." Then the panic would subside.

 

[Moobs99]

Lol... My pair did this frequently and each time my initial thought was, "Oh Gosh, they ate them! I should've removed them." Then the panic would subside.

Lol yeah I was thinking the same thing till I watched her more closely and seen her spitting the on to a leaf, I was surprised really as this is there first time spawning, so was expecting th to eat the eggs! But the mom is ace at it! Unlike the dad lol he did his deed now spends all his time at the other end of the tank looking at the tv lol