2nd Time Around Fishless Cycling 120gal Tank

[Ann7667]

Well, I use API. The test kits are new (as you can imagine, since I've been testing almost daily for a couple of months).
I dosed the Amm on the 19th to 4.0ppm and in 24 hours it was at 2.0 so I was going to check it again (since it usually drops 2ppm/day) last night and forgot to do that. So this morning, 2 days after I dosed it up, it was at 0 which is where I thought it was going to be.
I possibly misread the NitrAtes because it is a nice dark color and might still be at 30. Sometimes reading the number is a close call.
I could check the water every 12 hours to see what is happening in the tank. That might be a better idea than waiting a full 24.

 

[eco23]

Well, I use API. The test kits are new (as you can imagine, since I've been testing almost daily for a couple of months).
I dosed the Amm on the 19th to 4.0ppm and in 24 hours it was at 2.0 so I was going to check it again (since it usually drops 2ppm/day) last night and forgot to do that. So this morning, 2 days after I dosed it up, it was at 0 which is where I thought it was going to be.
I possibly misread the NitrAtes because it is a nice dark color and might still be at 30. Sometimes reading the number is a close call.
I could check the water every 12 hours to see what is happening in the tank. That might be a better idea than waiting a full 24.

I think the 24 hour mark is fine (unless you get curious ). It'll even save your solution and a few $'s.

My guess is that if we can ever get the pH back where it was...you might be just about done. Maybe it's time for some serious water changing to get the pH up, dose 1 or 2 more times and see what happens. I think we may be closer than it appears if you're dropping ammo at a good rate, no2 is staying zeroed out and no3 is climbing. In fact, after the water change, if we can get 3ppm to change into nitrAtes in 24 hours...it may be fishy time

 

[Ann7667]

Okay then! I'll do that water change this afternoon - probably 60% and then I'll also put more cc in the filter, then dose it up again.
Fishy time would be nice!
Thanks

 

[librarygirl]

Yay! Congratulations!

 

[eco23]

Lets not break out the party hats yet...but I really do think the pH fluctuations are what's stopping us from crossing the finish line.

Ann, you don't have pH issues in the other tank? Do you have CC in it? The way you're all over the board does concern me. I have really low alkalinity water myself, and I permanently run a small bag of CC in my canister on my 46 gallon just to keep things stable. I took it out for a while and had a pretty good drop in pH within a couple of days. I don't have the problem in my smaller tanks, but they have a much smaller bio-load and there's not as much nitrification happening.

 

[Ann7667]

Oh my gosh! The pH in the other tank where the fish are is on the floor. I don't think there is any crushed coral in there. I'm amazed at that because I do two 20% water changes a week in that aquarium. So I'll add cc to that one too. I didn't even take any readings on that one because of the frequent water changes I'm doing. Yikes!
So that's the first thing I'll do this afternoon, but I have an appt. now and have to run out. Thank you for those questions. I'll get right on it and post again later today.

 

[eco23]

Oh my gosh! The pH in the other tank where the fish are is on the floor. I don't think there is any crushed coral in there. I'm amazed at that because I do two 20% water changes a week in that aquarium. So I'll add cc to that one too. I didn't even take any readings on that one because of the frequent water changes I'm doing. Yikes!
So that's the first thing I'll do this afternoon, but I have an appt. now and have to run out. Thank you for those questions. I'll get right on it and post again later today.

Do it SLOWLY. If you throw a ton in there at once, it will rocket the pH up and can be stressful for your fish. I'd add it over the course of a few days to get it to buffer your pH up to the natural value.

 

[librarygirl]

Wow, that's interesting. I'm really surprised I'm not having PH issues (at least not yet) given my water is so low in GH and KH. I almost wish mine were at 6 at least then I'd have a reason why my bleeping tank isn't cycled yet

Hang in there Ann, the PH will be stable soon with Eco's help and your cycle will keep zooming along

 

[Ann7667]

I did a water change in the 75gal. aquarium and the pH did not budge so as soon as Ian gets back, I'll put a bag of coral in the filter. I need his help to strap down the top (It's a MarineLand C360 and the strap holding the "click downs" broke and it takes one of us to hold the strap in place while the other one secures the "click-downs" or it just takes one of Ian doing both jobs.)
The fish look very happy. Not stressed at aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallll. They are mostly South American Cichlids and they like a range of pH from 6.4 to 7.0. They are on the low part of that right now. So I will move the pH up slowly and watch it.
In the meantime, I assume the BB's are eating the Ammonia in the big tank. I will do a water change in the big tank this afternoon, add more cc and and I'll be back tomorrow.

 

[eco23]

Sounds like a plan. If the natural pH of your water was that low I'd never suggest adjusting it...but because these pH crashes are related to low alkalinity...it's a problem that needs to be dealt with IMO. I know the Cichlids like it on the lower end, but the fluctuations are the problem. When you do pwc's it rockets up, and after a couple days it plummets down and the instability is the problem. I think you've got a good handle on it now

 

[Ann7667]

I actually did the water change this morning. Changed out 70%. I added a 3rd bag of crushed coral so about 33% of the filter media is crushed coral, there are three media containers in my Rena and one has coral ONLY in it. That should raise the pH.
I filled the aquarium with treated water.
It is now dosed up to Amm4ppm again.
The temp. is 88 deg.
I am not going to look at any results until tomorrow morning. 7/23.
I'll post again then.

 

[Ann7667]

Okay, after the 70% water change and adding more cc yesterday morning, I did peek at some results last night and last night 7/22, the pH was 7.6 (which is nice). Here are all the results this morning 7/23:
pH=7.0
Amm=2.0
NitrItes=.25
NitrAtes=20
Temp=84.9 deg. I'm using a meat thermometer so I turn up both heaters a notch, looking for 85-87 degrees.

I'm glad I checked on the pH last night because 12 hours after I added the extra cc (so that a full 1/3 of the filter contains cc now) the pH went from 6.6 to 7.6, then 12 hours later (this morning) the pH dropped to 7.0.
Hope things start to go better. Yesterday was a difficult day because I'm trying to for the first time build a website with GoDaddy.com and a newsletter with Constant Contact and that's not going well and then then the aquarium is off track. augh, so today I excpect to have some success because I'm going to a bar-b-Q and at least I'm good at THAT!
Eco23, when you see this, I'd love to know what you think about where my tank is. I have no clue why the pH keeps dropping and I'm almost ready to just adjust it up with pH UP so that I can get the pH where I want it so it will cycle. I don't ever use it, but would it be okay to use it now if the pH keeps dropping. Because I don't think it's going to cycle, as you say, until the pH is high and steady.

 

[eco23]

You might officially have the lowest alkalinity water I've ever seen. Levels moving shows conversion which is a good thing. The pH up product isn't going to do anything really different than the CC, plus you'd have you'd have to add it every pwc instead of a steady source.

Unfortunately I've got one more possible solution which involves more $. From the research I've done, aragonite sand is superior to CC in buffering ability and might be the next step you have to take in order to deal with the issue. Unfortunately due to your water chemistry...buffering is obviously going to be a requirement. The pH fluctuations are bad for fish...as well as (obviously) for the BB and the ability to cycle smoothly.

 

[Ann7667]

I called my lfs and he said aragonite sand is basically crushed up coral. So why can't I just pound the crap (scuse me) out of my crushed coral with a sledge hammer until it is sand-like and put THAT in my cannister. Do you think that would work? I have a whole 20+ pound bag of cc.
Right now I have 2 bags of swimming pool filter sand in my tank because it was $10/50 pound bag. Do you think that could be the problem in the pH staying so low?
If it IS, then I'll take that pool sand OUT and go to the beach, get a few contractor's black plastic bags and fill them to the point where I can lift them into the car and put THAT in my tank. Or go to Home Depot and buy their sand box sand and use THAT. With whatever sand I end up with I will also put the crushed coral sand in my filter, too. Or would the sand in the filter ruin my filter? If it would ruin my filter then I would put it in the tank with whatever other sand I end up with.
My fishies like sand because they are geophageses (sp?) earth eaters.
So would any of those scenarios work?

 

[Ann7667]

please respond soon because I'm going to a Bar-B-Q (which I know how to do very well and will be successful) and I can't wait to see what you have to say.

 

[eco23]

As far as I know the PFS won't have any effect (again, as far as I know). Let me see if I can dig up an article on CC vs aragonite.

 

[eco23]

I wish I used the bookmark button a little more often. I used to have a great article explaining the difference between CC, aragonite and dolomite. It made very clear (in a very scientific and tested way) that aragonite is superior in buffering ability.

Check to see if your CC is actually already combined with aragonite. Many of them are. I'll keep digging.

 

[eco23]

Here's one-
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html#correctph

It's ridiculously long winded...but does cover CC vs aragonite. I normally recommend CC because it's cheaper, and honestly I've never seen a tank which the CC didn't do the job in. They do recommend a Seachem product worth considering...I just prefer the natural approach since I'm not familiar with the buffering products and powders.

 

[Ann7667]

Thank you! I'll also keep looking after the bar-b-Q

 

[Ann7667]

WOW! I LOVE that articleI love details and will read it when I get back and then get into a plan of action. I copied and pasted it into a word document and started printing it. It should be finished before I am back.
Thank you so much!!!!!