What Does Continuously Clean, Clear Water Mean at This Point?

[ArtesiaWells]

My new Marineland 60 gallon goldfish setup has been running for well over a month now, dosed with Seachem Stability to kick-start the cycle, treated with Prime and then introduced with the four fancies I had in a 10 gallon; I didn't really take many parameter readings via the API Freshwater Master Kit during this period, as I simply followed the Stability instructions of keeping to the seven-day treatment (during which time any aquatic life could be added with no dangers, according to Seachem, so long as it's followed to the seventh day) and did water changes as much as I could (the fish were added two days after the tank was up and running, with two full days of Stability in there to kind of "prep" it for them)...

Once the seven days were over, I kept to the daily water change schedule (50% pretty much each week) with, sometimes, a few mid-week changes just to maintain the super-clean water...the fish have been absolutely fine, and the water ALWAYS smells clean, "freshly cut lawn"-like and "Earthy"...

Here's the thing though: After a month in, I have yet to experience ANY bacterial bloom or cloudy water...is this normal? The water is always clear and I am beginning to wonder if I have even begun going into a cycle yet -- I realize this is pretty much useless without parameter readings, in terms of sharing these events, but as I said, I have been keeping up with the water changes (with the fish-in), dosing with Prime each time of course, and so I wanted some feedback or insight from you knowledgeable folk...

Is it normal NOT to experience ANY bacterial bloom or cloudy water? I know what we're after is pristine, transparent-looking water, but is it normal for this to be continuing for so long now with a brand-new setup?

 

[Convict2161]

I never had a bloom of any sort in any of my tanks. Be happy and don't question it.

Clear, clean water... Why ask why IMO.

Parameters are all in check? Water looks good? Fish healthy and happy? Sit back and enjoy!!

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I never had a bloom of any sort in any of my tanks. Be happy and don't question it.

Clear, clean water... Why ask why IMO.

Parameters are all in check? Water looks good? Fish healthy and happy? Sit back and enjoy!!

Thanks D,

I didn't know you could actually go without a cloud bloom in any new setup as you have multiple times...good to know...

I am only asking why because I thought it was weird that I have not seen a day of cloudy/murky water, which would have indicated to me a bacterial bloom had started, thus the cycle -- but this may be going on, in fact, due to the Stability treatment of the tank (I think there was a brief period where there was some cloudy water during the week-long treatment of this bio stimulation stuff now that I'm thinking about it...but nothing since then, nor anything memorable back then...).

As for the parameters, as I stated, I really don't know because I have been doing regular water changes almost religiously (especially since by Black now Gold Moor had developed a nasty "pimple like" formation under her body which I thought was again a bacterial infection, but which seemed to go away just as quickly on its own after I started doing small daily water changes just to keep that water really, really pristine so she could "heal;" I am still doing them in fact up to this day) and really watching the water quality/smell, etc...but to answer your other question, yes, definitely -- the fish seem happy and healthy...

Would you worry if you were me?

 

[Zimmanski]

Bacterial blooms generally happen when there is an excess amount of nutrients(toxins if talking about fish) for the bacteria to feed. It's a mix of our normal BB and a different type of bacteria that consumes faster and dies more easily when there isn't the normal amount of food. I've experience a bloom once during my clueless fish in cycle in my first tank, but none in the tanks since. It's not that needs to happen, it just does, or it doesn't.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Thanks for the info, Zimm...

So my tank is okay if I didn't experience a bloom/cloudy water breakout, and it's always, day in and day out, clean and clear?

 

[Zimmanski]

Thanks for the info, Zimm...

So my tank is okay if I didn't experience a bloom/cloudy water breakout, and it's always, day in and day out, clean and clear?

Yup, as long as the parameters are good then don't worry about it. Remember though, just because the water is clear doesn't mean you don't have ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate. You need to be checking these weekly until you know exactly how your reacts over time, then you can skip a week or so

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Yup, as long as the parameters are good then don't worry about it. Remember though, just because the water is clear doesn't mean you don't have ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate. You need to be checking these weekly until you know exactly how your reacts over time, then you can skip a week or so

Yes, I'm aware that because the water is clear it doesn't mean it's not carrying some toxins -- but let me ask you this: Wouldn't high ammonia and/or nitrate/nitrite also come along with pretty bad odors, too? I mean, if it was really high? The water always smells really, really clean...sometimes there's no odor at all, as if it's super-pristine...

Does this still not mean anything?

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Further, let me inquire -- even if I am not doing regular parameter readings, does it matter even if I am doing water changes a few times a week anyway? Most of the time, I'm not just doing the 50% weekly routine, as advised, as I happen to have some extra time on my hands right now due to working from home...especially, as I stated, right now because of a pimple-like formation that appeared on one of my goldfish that I am "treating" with DAILY small water changes (treated with Prime, and which seemed to have made this "sore" go away, believe it or not)...

 

[Convict2161]

Is your tank cycled? Of so then all those water changes are unnecessary however won't harm anything. I just stick to weekly's even skipping a week sometimes. But I know my tank and what I can and can't get away with.

 

[Convict2161]

High levels won't make your water stink as you put it. I hope your not going by smell to determine water parameters. You should be testing your water regularly IMO.

I test once a month. But only test pH, ammonia and nitrAtes.

If your water smells horrible there's something else going on(not saying yours personally) just saying.

Don't over analyze things or over think the hobby too much, it will drive you crazy. TRUST ME!! You should read my thread "how to lose your hair" lol

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Is your tank cycled? Of so then all those water changes are unnecessary however won't harm anything. I just stick to weekly's even skipping a week sometimes. But I know my tank and what I can and can't get away with.

I had mentioned in the original post that I have not really been taking regular parameter readings and instead just doing water changes a few times a week aside from the larger weekly 50% one -- especially recently because one of my goldfish appeared to have a "pimple" on the lower portion of her body that concerned me and got really big in no time at all; instead of dosing with medication, even though I suspected this may have been a bacterial reaction to something, I simply stepped up water changes to keep the water super, super pristine so she could "heal," doing small ones every day, and now it seems this "sore" has disappeared...

That being said, instead of doing routine parameter readings -- which ALWAYS drive me nuts because I can't make out where certain colors fall in the API chart you're supposed to follow, unless they're in the extreme ranges which they never are -- I have been simply doing regular changes, my thinking being, well, what would I even do if the tests came back as something WAS off? I would do water changes!

 

[ArtesiaWells]

High levels won't make your water stink as you put it. I hope your not going by smell to determine water parameters. You should be testing your water regularly IMO.

No, I wasn't "going" just "by" smell tests of the water to determine quality; I just wanted to note, for all of you, that the water has been smelling absolutely pristine with that "just cut lawn" scent we have always spoke of...I thought this simply meant the water was, in a general sense, "doing well"...

But the fact that IF something is wrong doesn't equate to bad odors coming from the water does concern me...

 

[Convict2161]

Bottom line... In between all your water changes it might be a good idea to test your water. To simply "just do water changes because IF something was off I'd be doing well... Water changes" IMO is a poor response. Don't mean to come off harsh, I respect you and we've talked many many times.

I think you need to be testing, I don't care how pristine the water is or how spring free the water smells. You should really know your bio load and what your tank is doing.

Example:

I know I can skip a week and I'll be fine. My feedings are the same everyday at the same time. Lights are on a timer, my point? I know I can go away for a week or 8 days and my tank will be ok. By you doing so many water changes a week, you'll never know where your tank stands. You'll never know your true readings.

I would at least wanna know where my tank stands. What if your tap water changes? It's happened plenty of times to others including myself. Water main breaks, change in pH, higher metal readings etc etc etc...

Also you must be buying stock in Prime(I believe that's what you said you use)

I think and again this is my opinion. Slow it down with the water changes. It seems like your doing them to prevent something that may not need to be prevented.

API freshwater test kit isn't that hard to use. If you find it that hard. Test and post your results. I'm SURE others would help you including myself in reading them or take a sample to your LFS and ask them to test it. Or.... Use a different kit like Salifert or something.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Bottom line... In between all your water changes it might be a good idea to test your water. To simply "just do water changes because IF something was off I'd be doing well... Water changes" IMO is a poor response. Don't mean to come off harsh, I respect you and we've talked many many times.

While it seemed a bit harsh at primary, first read, I understand what you mean and where you're coming from -- let me see if I can explain what I meant a bit more clearly by that statement so it perhaps does not come across as a "poor response"...

What I was really trying to convey was that let's say the test results come back as showing certain parameters as being off and in the "poor quality" range -- and I'm NOT saying testing shouldn't be done, at all -- in this case, I would simply do a water change to remedy the problem, not add any kind of chemicals that purport to "lower nitrates" or "change pH readings"...I would ONLY do a water change...so, my logic seemed to steer me towards the conclusion that IF something was off, and I didn't even do any testing, the water change would be the answer anyway...

I think you need to be testing, I don't care how pristine the water is or how spring free the water smells. You should really know your bio load and what your tank is doing.

I understand your sentiment; I just have had such bad "luck," so to speak, with reading and understanding the API results -- EVEN WHEN I post them for others to analyze and make sense of (I will get to that below in response to your like-minded suggestion)...

Example:

I know I can skip a week and I'll be fine. My feedings are the same everyday at the same time. Lights are on a timer, my point? I know I can go away for a week or 8 days and my tank will be ok. By you doing so many water changes a week, you'll never know where your tank stands. You'll never know your true readings.

I would at least wanna know where my tank stands. What if your tap water changes? It's happened plenty of times to others including myself. Water main breaks, change in pH, higher metal readings etc etc etc...

Yes, that's true -- pH in the tap can change, tap conditions, etc...

Also you must be buying stock in Prime(I believe that's what you said you use)

LOL...yes, I use Prime, but, unbelievably so, I am STILL on the same large bottle of the stuff I have been using since doing the DAILY water changes when the goldies were in the 10 gallon...going through stock of this stuff hasn't been a problem yet, believe it or not...

I think and again this is my opinion. Slow it down with the water changes. It seems like your doing them to prevent something that may not need to be prevented.

As I stated, I feared for my Black Moor's health because of this red, inflamed bump which appeared under her body -- my first reaction was that this was, again, some kind of nasty bacterial infection brought about by some kind of water quality imbalance, so THAT is why I stepped up water changes to small ones daily, and continue to do them, as to keep the water SUPER clean so she could "heal" (rather than thrown unknown medicines in the tank and guess as to what was wrong with her). The approach seems to have worked, as the "sore" seems to be almost gone; THAT was the reason for these small, daily changes...otherwise, I would have kept up with the weekly 50% jobs...

API freshwater test kit isn't that hard to use. If you find it that hard. Test and post your results. I'm SURE others would help you including myself in reading them or take a sample to your LFS and ask them to test it. Or.... Use a different kit like Salifert or something.

I'm not taking a sample of my water anywhere near my local fish store, which happens to be a Petsmart -- there are no mom 'n pop, privately-owned shops ANYWHERE in my area -- but in the past, I have had trouble reading the API results and didn't really "get" the feedback in terms of what folks online were trying to tell me with regard to analyzing them...I can always test and try again, posting them here...

 

[Zimmanski]

Yes, I'm aware that because the water is clear it doesn't mean it's not carrying some toxins -- but let me ask you this: Wouldn't high ammonia and/or nitrate/nitrite also come along with pretty bad odors, too? I mean, if it was really high? The water always smells really, really clean...sometimes there's no odor at all, as if it's super-pristine...

Does this still not mean anything?

It would have to have some SERIOUSLY outa whack ammonia readings for you to be able to smell it haha, good question though. Remember we're talking about parts per millions here, you would have to be a blood hound on crack to smell it. But the earthy smell is good, mine have that great smell too(even though it sounds weird to say it, I like it). There are something's you would be able to smell though, when I was doing the fish in cycle(first time and ton of fish) I could smell the prime in the water since I was using a ton of it with the whole water changes thing.
And with the testing question, no you don't have to test it all the time, but I test on a regular basis is a good thing, I maybe test my water every three weeks, this is good because it will tell you how everything is doing in your tank like ph swings or if there is a malfunction in your BB colony. It's also good to test because you never really know what's going on in your tap, the tap readings swing regularly, things as simple as a heavy rain can make tap nitrates rise in a large amount.

 

[shellieca]

My two cents for what its worth . . . without testing you won't know when or if your tank has fully cycled & once cycled you won't need to do so many water changes. I used Stability in my 46g tank fish in cycle, tested daily, did the appropriate water changes, showed nitrites once at around 5 wks & then never again but did have high nitrates for a while. Its been perfect ever since & its been running for 9 months now, I test it periodically but not with any regularity just every so often to make sure all is good even though my water is crystal clear & my fish show no signs of a problem. So I would start testing even though your doing such frequent water changes.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

It would have to have some SERIOUSLY outa whack ammonia readings for you to be able to smell it haha, good question though.

I was thinking, though, that if ammonia in particular was "off," wouldn't this simply make the water really smell poor?

Remember we're talking about parts per millions here, you would have to be a blood hound on crack to smell it. But the earthy smell is good, mine have that great smell too(even though it sounds weird to say it, I like it).

Shhhhhhhhhhhh.......I like it too.....

There are something's you would be able to smell though, when I was doing the fish in cycle(first time and ton of fish) I could smell the prime in the water since I was using a ton of it with the whole water changes thing.
And with the testing question, no you don't have to test it all the time, but I test on a regular basis is a good thing, I maybe test my water every three weeks, this is good because it will tell you how everything is doing in your tank like ph swings or if there is a malfunction in your BB colony. It's also good to test because you never really know what's going on in your tap, the tap readings swing regularly, things as simple as a heavy rain can make tap nitrates rise in a large amount.

I understand this point about the need for testing -- as I did Convict's -- but my thinking was that IF something was "off" about the water parameters, what would be the remedy anyway? Wouldn't it be a good-sized water change?

 

[ArtesiaWells]

My two cents for what its worth . . . without testing you won't know when or if your tank has fully cycled & once cycled you won't need to do so many water changes. I used Stability in my 46g tank fish in cycle, tested daily, did the appropriate water changes, showed nitrites once at around 5 wks & then never again but did have high nitrates for a while. Its been perfect ever since & its been running for 9 months now, I test it periodically but not with any regularity just every so often to make sure all is good even though my water is crystal clear & my fish show no signs of a problem. So I would start testing even though your doing such frequent water changes.

Understood, Shellica.

But as I have been asking, IF tests showed something was elevated in the paramters, wouldn't a water change be the remedy?

Further -- is it somewhat normal that I have NOT experienced any cloudy water at all at this point?

 

[shellieca]

Understood, Shellica.

But as I have been asking, IF tests showed something was elevated in the paramters, wouldn't a water change be the remedy?

Further -- is it somewhat normal that I have NOT experienced any cloudy water at all at this point?

Yes a water change would be done BUT without testing when will you stop doing so many water changes?
Not every cycle is identical so not to have a bloom isn't unheard of.

 

[shellieca]

Yes a water change would be done BUT without testing when will you stop doing so many water changes?
Not every cycle is identical so not to have a bloom isn't unheard of.

I should say not to have CLOUDY water isn't unheard of.