55 gallon turtle & fish tank!

[flame_fish]

Okay, if anyone cares to see this, I'm tyler I'm planning on setting up my dads old 55 gallon salt water tank & using it for me as a freshwater tank! anyways I was hoping to get some feedback. I was thinking of doing this for the tank..

1 male Razorback musk turtle.
1male stinkpot
5 guppies.
5 platys
8 cory catfish
5 mollies.
5-6 ghost shrimp.
random snails.
1 calm betta (I already have him)
1 ADF.
1 Kuli Loach.
live & fake plants.

I've done loads of research & found out that they could all live in the same temperature. 70-80ish.

Is this over stocking? they're all pretty small & most are live barriers.

help please? thankss

 

[absolutangel04]

Hello Tyler, welcome to the site.
The stock you proposed unfortunately has some problems. First off, the turtles will probaly eat all your fish. Sometimes, people can keep tiny turtls with bigger fish, but when the turtles get bigger, they eat the fish. I suggest picking between a turtle or fish rather than trying to combine them.

 

[Nomadu571]

I agree however the fish will grow alot faster than the stinkpots, I keep both, and the turtles take years to get large.

This said big fast fish are wise, as the faster try are the more chance they stand. With stinkpots your pretty safe as they are very lazy and are known to be bottom walkers as their swimming is not fantastic! They tend to wobble and paddle erratically. So lazy bottom dwellers are more at risk. The adf will prob be gone first. They are also quite shy and easily intimidated so bigger fish are safer as said.

Aslong as your prepared to find some missing eventually, we're talking a couple of years if you are buying hatchlings, as they are tiny. In ten years the turtles will be 4-5" so any fish smaller might be at risk.

 

[flame_fish]

Thank you both!! well, I have had freshwater live barriers before but never turtles, but the stinkpots & razorbacks usally are about 3-4 inches I think, well the male ones. & i'm aware that most likely i'll lose some fish but I know the ones i'm getting are easy to take care of & do you guys think a planted tank with hides will distract the turtles from trying to kill the fish?

 

[Gboy66]

I wouldnt say "distract" but possibly pro-long the deaths of some fish. Large rooted plants, gloating plants, and a couple caves will minimize the chances of deaths, however.

 

[Nomadu571]

I would say yeah, as the fish will find it easy to get away from The turtle, hiding places will help them rest, also if some of the spots have entrances that are just smaller than the turtles shell he won't be able to get to them either. Most people forget that to chase the fish the turtle has to swim fast and be agile to catch them, and musks are far from that. As said before only if the fish are lazy and want to sit around are they in danger really. Hiding spots will help but I'm willing to bet that you will find the musks won't chase after the fish at all, they are just too lazy and shy. They would rather hang out on the water surface and be fed.

 

[Fishguy2727]

You have to assume that anything that goes in with turtles will end up as food.

That said, there are ways to greatly increase the likelihood this will work. Number one: NEVER feed the turtles live food. There are all sorts of problems with this anyways, but in this case most important is that live foods increase aggression. You will need to stick to high quality pellets and keep the turtles well fed. This will keep them from getting hungry enough to put much effort into catching the fish.

A huge issue with turtles that is exaggerated when you include fish is water quality. You need massive filtration and massive weekly water changes. When I did this I did 90% weekly water changes.

Basking area: the turtles need it. If you can keep the water level full and still give the turtles somewhere to back under their mercury vapor bulbs, good. Many people reduce the water level which means you need different filtration since canister (the best option on a high waste tank like this) don't work as well with reduced water levels, although they may still be the best option depending on how much you need to drop the water.

Ghost shrimp will be gone, along with the cories, betta, frog, and most likely the plants too. The live bearers stand a chance, but are not as good of an option as fast goldfish, cichlids, danios, etc.

 

[Nomadu571]

Agree with the filtration, I run two internal filters and still do 70-80% water changes weekly, including extensive vacuuming of the substrate as turtles, including musks, are very messy eaters and leave bits of everything strewn across the floor. They also like to re-arrange your tank so bolt everything down or don't get too attached to your aquascaping!

Plants will be eaten definitely, so fake plants are best. They will rip live plants apart and you will find yourself picking bits out of the filter intake daily, even moss. Make sure they have lots of ways to reach the surface by climbing, they like to hang on floating plants or decor at the surface, just to poke their nose out.

As said shrimp, snails, frogs and any lazy fish will be instant food.

 

[Nu-Nu the eel]

This is a bad idea, i dont reccomend starting a tank where fish are always nervous and stressed about if they are going to be eaten of not. Hiding places may work, but ur fish are upper fish so they will want to be near the surface. I reccomend picking between turtles and fish

 

[flame_fish]

Thnks again & do any of you reccomend a really good filtre(s) that would work good for a 55 gallon tank? I can see your point of not having fish & turtles mix, & at this point i'm definetly planning on changing the way I want the tank, but on youtube & websites theres a lot of videos of people housing small fish & musks together & making it work perfectly. But This is my first turtle tank & i'm willing to expirement with them but not in a stressful way. But what are good fish that are kind of small that can live with musks?

 

[Nomadu571]

I wouldn't want to recommend anything because as we have said none really can, however I have one dwarf gourami in with my turtle, the reason being that she was really aggressive towards tank mates in the fish tank, so I separated her for a while , but she is doing much better on her own with the turtle her battle scar is gone and she's plump and swimming happily, probably better now she's on her own. She is much bigger than the musk, and i have NEVER witnessed the turtle going after her, normally infact when she wants to rest she will sit next to the turtle in his cave and he happily ignores her.

This is why I say some fish can survive with turtles, but it's definitely trial and error. I personally would put the turtle in and leave it a month or so for them to make their home then introduce one fish, preferably non-schooling fish, and see how they react to eachother. If after another month the fish is still alive try introducing some more, but beware of territorial fish who will not take kindly to new fish. If the new fish gets beaten and stressed by the old, the turtle will have its first victim.

It's a tricky slope to work this one out. If you had fish and turtles separately you could experiment, and have a refuge for them should it not look so good.

 

[flame_fish]

Okay! I have a un used 30 gallon tank so I know that if I happen to start seeing fish either missing or being attacked i'll move them, so big fish? Are there any fish who are calm & I could have a lot of if their bigger than the turtles? I don't wanna do goldfish or fish that have to be alone. Any good big fish that can be in groups??

 

[Nomadu571]

How about barbs? They like to be in groups and most will be bigger than the turtle for the first few years. They are active and fast and will intimidate the musks at first. They also stay away from the bottom unless it's for food so Would be safer in the upper levels of the water.

They are bullies tho so may bully eachother to a point of weakness where one may disappear.

 

[Nu-Nu the eel]

Haha true, i hate barbs though, but they might be the best option for turtles. Would
An angelfish and gourmis work?
Also how abt chiclids and turtles?
Maybe jack dempsys or something

 

[flame_fish]

Oh cool, but aren't barbs aggressive? I remember I saw some at a pet store & they were attacking a dying fish , that was just so messed up but I was really looking forward to having coryadoras, should they be labeled out?

 

[Nu-Nu the eel]

Ya barbs are agressive, so u put them in ur tank will have to be an agressive tank. And yea i like cories, but they are super wierd fish. There are TONS of accounts of cories being dead for absolutly no reason. This happene to me as well. I suggest getting a catfish or something a little bigger. I own a feather fin catfish and he is so cool. He has 10 times more personality then any cory, just my opinion. U could also get pictus catfish but they get pretty large mssg me i u have any questions abt these types of catfish

 

[flame_fish]

okay thank you! But what kinds of catfish that can be in small groups besides cories, & would kuli loaches go good in the tank? & speaking of cories, just asking are they hardy fish??

 

[Nu-Nu the eel]

I think coeies are the only small catfish that schools.. I could be wrong though. And yea kulis would probably work as long as they are big enough. I persobally dont think cories are hardy, but other people have differant experiences with these fish

 

[Nomadu571]

Thy are only called 'fin nippers' because in low numbers they will nip at other fish out of boredom, I wouldn't call them aggressive, more cheeky. Lol. As I said they have an internal hierarchy so the weakest will get bullied, which is why I made my previous statement, but that's as aggressive as I think they get. The recommended school is 8+.

Angelfish and gourami, I would be ok with the gourami but I think the Angels may get stressed out easily, although I've never kept them so I really don't know how finicky they are. Same with chchilds, I know they normally have a species only tank, and probably are in the wrong temperature range.

Do some research because a hatchling musk should have water around 23-25c and when reaching 6 months the temp should be lowered to around 20-23c so the fish would need to be hardy and adapt to temperature changes also. I'd maybe try a gourami as they are fairly territorial and grow at a good rate, are fast and can dodge a turtle easy. Providing the dg stays alive, as some are prone to stress or 'dwarf gourami depression' and will sit at the bottom motionless, this Would be very bad for its health, add some barbs in later for some activity and have a gourmi/barb mix.

In order to feed the musk properly you should be feeding live food so be aware that fish may steal the turtles food, so to make sure you can feed the turtles
In a place where fish can't get the food. Also two musks may fight over food so you may want two separate feeding areas, or decide to take them out into a 'feeding pot'. This would minimise the mess going into your filter and keep the tank cleaner for longer, however they are shy and may not appreciate this.

 

[Nomadu571]

Cory's are bottom dwellers and may be fine for a while but need schools of six, and will be the first to go, as they sit at the bottom for ages, I know this from experience, the turtle will eat them.