Another Stocking Question

[GouramiFanatic]

So, my last Angle baby died today. I started with 4 and the last one survived for two weeks before dying today. I'm afraid to try Angels again as I don't want to kill anymore of them. So now I'm trying to think of what else I can add that woudl be a nice fit for my community. Here's what I have right now in my 46 gallon bow tank...

(2) Male Flame Dwarf Gouramis
(5) Long Fin Leopard Danios
(4) Zebra Danios
(1) Sailfin Pleco
I'm waiting on my lfs to get some YoYo Loaches and I'm hoping to have about 4 or 5 of these guys once they arrive.

I still feel as though I should have enough space to add some other fish. One of my co-workers brought in her digital camera and showed me pictures of her tank which is primarily a cichlid tank. The cichlids are beautiful, but I'm not interested in getting any of the aggressive ones for my tank. One of the fish that I was especially fond of is her Bolivian Ram. I've also always been very fond of the German Blue Rams, but I haven't seen them anywhere in my travels yet. I think I saw a Bolivian Blue Ram at my lfs last week though.

Well I did some research and I've found out that both the Bolivian and German Blue are both peaceful and would make great additions to a community tank. Do you think this would be a good choice for my tank and the fish already kept in it?

Also,

While I'm waiting for my YoYo Loaches to show up I keep seeing the Candy Stripe Pleco which is what I wanted for the longest time before I really started fish keeping. I've read mixed reactions on keeping more than one Pleco in a tank, but was wondering if that's more so of a same species type of issue. In other words, would 'Count' (my Sailfin) be aggressive towards a Candy Stripe Pleco, or vice versa? Also, I'm thinking that this CSP might be overkill once the YoYo's come in. Your thoughts?

Any other stocking recommendations are welcome. I've already thought about Tetras and Rasboras, but I'm not sure if I really want to go that route.

 

[TCTFish]

You should find out what killed the angels first before getting new fish. Here are some questions...

How big is the tank?
Type of filter?
How long has it been up and running with fish in it?
How often do you change water and how much is taken out at once?
How often and how much do you feed?
What are the test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH?

BTW...angels are cichlids too.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

You should find out what killed the angels first before getting new fish. Here are some questions...

How big is the tank?
Type of filter?
How long has it been up and running with fish in it?
How often do you change water and how much is taken out at once?
How often and how much do you feed?
What are the test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH?

BTW...angels are cichlids too.

The Angels that I had were all very small. About the size of a nickle, maybe slightly larger. From what I've read baby Angels are very fragile and far from being hardy. None of my other fish are showing any signs of being ill.

1- As I said in my original post, the tank is a 46 Gallon Bow.
2- I have the AquaClear 300
3 - It's been running with fish since last March or April, as a matter of fact the Gouramis that I currently have are the original 2 that I started with.
4 - I do 25-30% water changes weekly, sometimes every other week. This aquarium is at my office so it's not as easy for me to stick to a set water change schedule.
5- I feed a small amount of food (alternating type of food) every morning.
6- Ammonia and Nitrites have been at 0ppm consistantly, Nitrate has been between 10-20ppm consistantly, Ph is 7.0. Also, temps are at 76°.
7 - Yes, I was aware that Angels are Cichlids.

 

[TCTFish]

Maybe the gouramis pestered them. It is possible being the angels were that small going into their territory. Order of introduction does make a difference.

Also, baby fish like that are very sensitive to changes in their environment including big water changes which you do quite often. If you get angels, only get a pair and they should be just as big if not bigger than the gouramis upon introduction.

The sailfin pleco will eventually be way too large for the tank. Getting a second pleco before that and any other bottom feeder is overkill. Sailfins are beautiful, but they do get huge. The candy stripes stay small and could be manageable with some yoyo loaches, but do keep in mind that yoyo loaches can reach about 6". The candy stripes get about 5" and the sailfin???...LOL...about 2 feet. They are whopper plecos.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Thanks for the info. I'm aware that 'Count' (the Sailfin) will get large and I've already got a plan in place for when he needs to be moved. I'm looking at getting a larger tank for my home. The new tank will be at least 75 gallon, although I was checking out a 120 gallon last week. I think I'm going to develop MTS before all is said and done. LOL I think I already knew the answer about the Candy Striped Pleco, but I guess I was hoping you guys would convince me not to go for it. As much as I want these guys, I'll pass because I really like Count and I really want some YoYo's as well. I've never heard that they can get to be 6" though. I think the biggest I read was 4". Does anybody have them as large as 6"

I was thinking of trying Angels again, but I'm very nervous about it. I've already decided that if I do, they will be larger than the ones I had. I don't think I will go for the Angels right away though because as I mentioned in my previous original post, I'm very interested in trying the Bolivian Ram. Doing more research last night I also started reading up on Keyhole Cichlids as well.

 

[Andos99]

I had a very similar problem myself. I bought four baby angels about the same size as the ones you mentioned and they didn't make it longer then 2 weeks. I was apprehensive about trying them again, so I bought a trio of much larger angels and I've had great results so far. I also bought them from a more reputable dealer and I waited a few weeks to make sure they were healthy before I bought them. I'm sure that has something to do with it, but I believe the larger adults to be far hardier. Good luck!

 

[TCTFish]

I know someone with a 125 gallon and his yoyo loach is huge. He had him since he was tiny and the thing is about 8 years old now. I guess it really depends on how long you have them. Maybe most people just can't seem to get them to live that long for them to get that big. It does take a life time for a fish to reach its full potential adult size. Like with Bala sharks...takes them 8 to 10 years to reach a foot long. Takes nearly 20 years for a Calvus (an African Cichlid) to grow to its full potential size of just 4". In captivity, these guys might grow an extra inch or two. That's another thing...many captive fish might actually live longer and therefore become bigger than their wild counterparts. It is typical among African cichlids and I'm sure other types as well.

Bolivian Rams are very nice fish. They can get pushy with some fish that may be smaller than themselves, but that's typical of cichlids, but over all, they are a good fish. They are also one of the hardier species of Ram.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

Thanks for the info! I went to the lfs today to look and they actually had German Blue Rams. It was the first time I had seen one in person. What a beautiful fish!! There were a few of them in the tank mixed in with two very large Angels. One of the Rams had red spots on it's left side and it was breathing very rapidly. I'm not sure if it was being picked on or if it had some kind of a disease.

They also had Crown Cichlids there. Do you know much about them? I'll be doing research on my own, but I love reading from your personal experiences as well!

 

[TCTFish]

I've never heard of crown cichlid. Did a google image search and there was ONE...LOL photo of a Columbian/ruby crown/bolivian butterfly cichlid. I don't see any difference between them and regular Bolivian rams.

 

[Guest]

i wouldn't fret about the lost angels. Since i stopped trying angels i haven't had a fish death in about 3 months. However when i tried angels I would get 6-8 babies and maaybe 2 would survive. If i got the larger sized juveniles it was still risky business. So thus i haven given up angels and am keeping african cichlids!!!!

Just my 2 cents. Keep looking and browsing the fish stores and if you see a fish you like research it. Thats the best way to find a new fish. If you look online and find something you love you may not be able to find it locally.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

I forgot to mention that when I was looking at the German Blue Rams one of the store employees came over and asked if I need help. I explained that I was still researching, but was looking to maybe purchase a Bolivian Ram or a Keyhole Cichlid. I went on to say that I was also very interested in the German Blue Ram now as they're very beautiful fish. Once I gave her this info she asked what fish I currently had and what my paramenters were. I gave her a list of the fish and told her my Nitrites and Ammonia were both tested at 0ppm and that my Ph was 7.0. She said that they wouldn't survive in this tank because all Cichlids (including Angels) need high Ph levels.

I did a load of reading last night on the Bolivian and Keyhole and from what I gathered they should have neutral Ph. I was a little put off by what she said and how she said it. I know that some Cichlids need high Ph levels, but I just didn't read anything about that for the fish I was looking at.

 

[Guest]

well it sounds like she doesn't know what she's talking about because Angels like more acidic pH and africans prefer more alkaline pH.

 

[petunia100]

Perhaps the one with the red spots on the side was a female. When they are gravid they have pink spots on their abdomens, I bet if it was a female she was getting picked on! If you get rams you should try to get more females than males.

 

[SerLunchbox]

when it comes to angels and rams (german blues or bolivian) i have found that there has to be 2 things to do with your tank to make them survive.

1) extremely mature tank
2) lots of caves, plants and hiding places

Angels, while very resiliant do require a very filtered and mature tank to do well. This is in part because whether they are wild or tank bred they can have very differnt needs. A wild angel needs to have much more neutral water to survive whereas tank bred angels are a little more tolerant though the problem with these guys is that they may have been from a bad family strain.

German blues, in my exerience, are too inbred and poorly bred to be trusted except from great breeders who know what they are doing. They also require a very mature tank and lots of plants and cave areas to hide and breed in. I have found that they are quite passive except when protecting their own territory.

 

[GouramiFanatic]

They also had Crown Cichlids there. Do you know much about them? I'll be doing research on my own, but I love reading from your personal experiences as well!

Well imagine my surprise when I was doing research last night and found out that the 'Crown Cichlids' at the lfs are Bolivian Rams!! A few of the websites that I was poking around said that they are commonly sold as Butterfly Rams or Ruby Crowns.

After doing a few hours worth of research (again) I ended up taking my chances today and went back to the lfs to purchase a pair. None of the fish in the tank they came from had any visible defects or illnesses and they all looked fantastic. I released them into the 46 gallon tank and within about an hour they started to swim around to check their new home. There were no altercations with any of the other fish in the tank and they also snatched up some food as I fed them their dinner meal before leaving for the day (I feed them late on Friday's because the dont' eat over the weekend).

I feel very good about this pair. With the other fish that I've added they took much longer to start moving around so well and to eat their first meal. I was very surprised that these guys did so soon! I'll bring my camera to work on Monday and will post an update as well. Thanks again for the advice!