Hobgob
Aquarium Advice Addict
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2011
- Messages
- 1,893
calfishguy said:For the dog thing I meant leaving it alone for days at a time coming back feeding it then leaving again
Then you shouldnt have a dog
calfishguy said:For the dog thing I meant leaving it alone for days at a time coming back feeding it then leaving again
most people dont take care of bettas properly when they are kept in a bowl that is why it is considered cruel, because most of the time it is. Thats not to say that everyone is like that, just most. If someone was willing to keep a betta in a bowl that was large enough to give some swimming space, keep the room temperature perfect at all times, and do daily water changes then it would be fine but in reality how many people do that? i consider it cruel to keep a betta in a small bowl with no filter and no heater because it is so rare that someone actually takes care of them properly. on the other hand, bettas also do not belong in large tanks, for the reasons that everyone stated. but a small five gallon filtered and heated tank in my opinion is perfect and the bare minimum that i would recommend for the above reasons.
you guys are getting ridiculous now. dogs have been a companion to humans for years, they are just as happy being a pet as they would be if they were in the wild, if not happier! anyone who knows anything about dogs will know this, there owners and family are there pack.
But anyway how did this change from fish to dogs? you cant compare the two they have completely different needs. i believe any animal can be just as happy as a pet as long as they are being properly cared for and there needs are being met. now as for bettas i think a bowl is hardly comparably to any habitat they would live in in the wild, unless you are doing daily water changes, providing a constant stable temperature and a bowl that is even large enough for them to turn around in it is completely cruel. like i said in my last post how many people do you know that do all that with there betta? hardly any.
Unfortunatly if you stick with your original argument then you have proved yourself wrong with this post. You were telling us about bettas living in next to nothing in the wild as justification for doing the same in captivity Also rice paddies have been enormous for thousands of ears so I dont know what rice paddies you are seeing that are tiny. Not being mean I was just saying. I looked up rice paddies to seeALL dogs are a decendant of wolves. You can trace back every dog variety to the wolf. Today's dogs are a result of mankind's manipulation of the characteristics it wanted from a wolf and created an animal that fit it's needs. Some traits have been bred out of the genes and some not. You would never think of your pet pooch as a wolf or make it live like wolf and that's my point about Bettas. These are not the wild fish you are trying to keep. Demanding that they should be living like the wild ones is the same as keeping your pet toy whatever dog as a wolf.
What you also must realize is that most of these fish that we keep in our tanks are not wild fish and never were. They are decendants of wild fish but are so far removed from that generation that they don't miss being in the river or pond or lake. They didn't come from that. They are the manipulation of the characteristics we liked about the wild ones. If we didn't do that, there would only be 1 color of swordtails, 1 color of Angelfish, etc....
Being humane to your pets is a must if you are going to have them. I was just pointing out that Bettas in a bowl, when cared for properly, is not inhumane.
Okay... discuss
Just because theyhave space in the wild doesn't mean they use it I think is what OP means. Bettas rarely stray from their territory which is a very small area. Food for thought
That is untrue simply because a goldfish can live for a year in a bowl. I think Im gonna bow out on this one though. Dont stand a chance no matter what evidence I present.Exactly. Thanks.
The point was that as man started playing with the Betta's physical features, it did not alter the labrynth organ that enables the fish to live in oxygen poor water just like man did not change wolves into vegetarians when they created dogs. They are all still carnivores like the wolf.
When you manipulate the gene pool, you take characteristics that you like and build on that. Some things you change, some you don't. Not having a fish live in a bowl is a personal choice. You think the fish thinks like a person. It doesn't. It thinks like a fish. As long as you care for it's needs regarding food and shelter, it's fish happy. If it wasn't, it would die much faster than they do.
Most people don't want to keep their fish in the manner in which they originated and that's fine.
That is untrue simply because a goldfish can live for a year in a bowl. I think Im gonna bow out on this one though. Dont stand a chance no matter what evidence I present.
You see, most fish in today's aquarium hobby are actually man made creations of a wild breed. If there had been no manipulation by man, there would be only 1 kind of goldfish, 1 color swordtail, molly, platy or guppy, no albino fish, no long finned variations, 1 color of angelfish,no balloon fish, no colored/ painted fish, etc. I think you are getting the point. All these new "creations" are just color or fin adaptations to the wild specie. They act the same as their forefathers and foremothers did when they were swimming along the rivers, lakes or ponds or esturaries (Yes, Mollies are actually brackish water fish if you research their ancestry
I have a problem with this - First off albino is a natural occuring thing, like in humans.You see, most fish in today's aquarium hobby are actually man made creations of a wild breed. If there had been no manipulation by man, there would be only 1 kind of goldfish, 1 color swordtail, molly, platy or guppy, no albino fish, no long finned variations, 1 color of angelfish,no balloon fish, no colored/ painted fish, etc. I think you are getting the point. All these new "creations" are just color or fin adaptations to the wild specie
got to it before meThis part of the first post I have a problem with, first off man is not responsible for most variants of fish only a few of many many species or forms, nature provided the genetic tools for mans exploitation. Second, The widespread distribution of certain species and those geographical locations have their own color morphs, this fact is true for cichlids including angelfish, killifish, guppies mollies and even swordtails that you claim would only be one color. If you need an example of this then look at Apistogramma agassizi whose natural range reaches across the entire country of brazil and has 23 documented WILD color forms each distinct to its river or tributary of origin. It seems to me that you are being a bit hypocritical by posting this before delving into research yourself.
As for the Bettas who wants to look at a fish in a jar? I'm sure just about everybody would agree that a small aquarium with some plants housing the Betta is more appealing, I mean if your gonna take it from one jar in the store just to put into another jar then why buy it?
I've breed bettas for 15 years and have collected various bettas species in Asia. And I'll I gotta say is I've successfully breed bettas of various species in small and large tanks. My most successful breeding set up was puttin two pairs in a planted 55 gallon with sponge filters set on low flow and tons of plants at the surface. Tank was kept at 80F and I had babys galore. You can keep bettas in large tanks people, just use sponge filters it's common sense really. Male bettas on the wild actually claim little pockets of water in rice paddies which the pockets are created by water oxen hoof prints. And the makes set up shop and defend these pockets while waiting for the females to come by.
This part of the first post I have a problem with, first off man is not responsible for most variants of fish only a few of many many species or forms, nature provided the genetic tools for mans exploitation. Second, The widespread distribution of certain species and those geographical locations have their own color morphs, this fact is true for cichlids including angelfish, killifish, guppies mollies and even swordtails that you claim would only be one color. If you need an example of this then look at Apistogramma agassizi whose natural range reaches across the entire country of brazil and has 23 documented WILD color forms each distinct to its river or tributary of origin. It seems to me that you are being a bit hypocritical by posting this before delving into research yourself.
As for the Bettas who wants to look at a fish in a jar? I'm sure just about everybody would agree that a small aquarium with some plants housing the Betta is more appealing, I mean if your gonna take it from one jar in the store just to put into another jar then why buy it?
I have a problem with this - First off albino is a natural occuring thing, like in humans.
Second there is more than one type of angelfish living in south america, they have not been made to look different (except long fin varieties) but yes we have enhanced their colour to make them more appealing. But we havent changed their actual patterns and colours, these are natural in the wild and more than likely in the aquarium.
So...yeah
Nice post though