I definately need some help here!

[Kari]

What about 'Quick Cure'? I ask because I already have that here, and I also have CopperSafe. I treated the tropical tank with both already (CopperSafe said once a month, and the quick cure I used two days), but am leary of continuing with so many meds at once, so since I haven't been seeing signs of ich in the tropical tank, I've only continued using the erythromycin.
I AM seeing signs of it in two of my male bettas though, upon taking a closer look at them today. I treated them with tetracycline last night, for other ailments, and all the treated water I have for them already has the tetracycline added...should I worry about the ich first, or finish the tetracycline, and THEN treat for ich? The tetracycline is supposed to run for 4 days, I think, which means two more days.

Whatever was hanging from the female guppy, it got longer, and it actually looked like poo at that point, so I just reached in and moved it with my finger, and it came off. Is it possible this is a symptom of constipation? Obviously, I pulled whatever it was out of the bowl, just in case.

 

[fearlessfisch]

If you are going to treat for ich, i personally would use heat rather than medication, since you are still cycling. The meds will disrupt the cycle, which really needs to be completed for the health of your fish. Meds also are likely to be harder on your fish than a heat treatment would be. You might want to add an airstone to the tank to ensure adequate oxygenation during the heat treatment, if you choose to do one.

 

[Kari]

I'm not sure what kind of thermometer it is...Some neighbors gave me the tank and it was already in there. That's when I started seperating the tropicals and goldfish, and put the tropicals on a small table that covered a heating vent. I figured that would keep the water a little warmer, and really had no clue yet that the water needed to be so consistently warm.

 

[Kari]

fearlessfisch,
This probably sounds like a dumb question, but what exactly is an air stone?

 

[Kari]

If you're talking about bubble stones, I have one of those in my tropical tank, along with a bubble bar that spans the back of the tank. I don't have anything for my betta bowls though, and they're the ones that I'm seeing signs of ich in

 

[Guest]

If you are going to treat for ich, i personally would use heat rather than medication, since you are still cycling. The meds will disrupt the cycle

Take the time to read the posts before popping in with your own response. Perhaps you did not see what Kari had to say about her heat issues? And who says she is "still cycling?" Did you miss the antibiotics comments? And do you have any idea what will happen to her fish if they have rampant bacterial infections and you increase the heat? Normally I suggest raising the temp a few degrees when using RidIch, but I was very careful not to recommend that here.

 

[An t-iasg]

Let's keep it civil, please. Arguing will not help Kari. Everyone has given wonderful advice.

Kari, about the "bubbles" on your bettas: Do you let their water sit out for 48 hours like you do the tetras' water? When I do water changes, I let the jug of water sit for 24 hours and all the little air bubbles stick to the side of the jug, then I tap the jug to get them to dissipate. Maybe you're seeing the bubbles as they dissipate in the tank. This should be avoided. Let the water sit for 24 hours, use your dechlor, and then do a water change. It's ok to have the airstone in your tropical tank, but I wouldn't worry about it for the betta bowls. Bettas are able to get oxygen from the air with their labyrinth organ.

If you think it's ich, after reading the article and observing them, here's what I would do: Since you have CopperSafe, use it. You can use the tetracycline and the CopperSafe at the same time. What brand of tetracycline is it? I read the Mardel leaflet and they say you can use CopperSafe to kill the ich and their brand of tetracycline to combat secondary infections. I don't think a specific brand really matters, though -- use what you have. Also do water changes every day to help eliminate the ich in their free-swimming stage. Read the CopperSafe label -- the ich treatment should be at least 7 days. I have read that you can use a drop per gallon at each water change for ich prevention, but I would not recommend this. Maybe that's the directions you read? Look again for ich treatment and I bet it says something like 7 days. If the fish are not stressed by the med, I'd do 10 days to make sure the ich is gone.

I agree with fearlessfisch about using the heat treatment for ich. But if your bettas are in unheated bowls, this isn't an option for you. You can't adjust a heating pad to keep a stable temp of 87 degrees that is needed for an ich treatment.

You have 4 male bettas, right? If four tanks of at least 5 gallons (or the 2.5 gallon MiniBow that I talked about earlier) is not an option, I would get two 10 gallon tanks and divide them, for 2 bettas in each tank. That way they could all have heat and filtration. I don't want to overwhelm you and I know the place where you got the bettas didn't tell you that bowls aren't good. But if you keep them in bowls, they may always be stressed and sick. The ich treatment and water changes could potentially be stressful in a bowl, but try it -- hopefully the fish will bounce back! Let us know!

 

[Kari]

An t-iasg,
Thanks for the info! The instructions on the bottle of CopperSafe that I have are as follows: Use 1 teaspoon for 4 gallons of water. Treats water for one month.

That's ALL it says! Like I'm supposed to use it just one time and it should last a month. It's in liquid form, does that make a difference? If not, then please, someone, tell me how much of this to use, and how frequently?!

 

[An t-iasg]

That's interesting... I just read my Mardel leaflet again and it says the same thing: "protects for over a month." It appears that this is a prevention and not a treatment. So, I would be hesitant to use it more often than it recommends. Copper can become toxic to fish at higher levels (google searches suggested 0.6 - 0.8 mg/L). This is why I don't recommend the use of copper for ich prevention on a regular basis. And I don't think one dose of the Coppersafe will help the ich. The Mardel leaflet says to use Maracide for ich treatment.

I would use your Quick Cure. Those directions say to use one drop per gallon daily.

 

[Kari]

My net connection was down all day yesterday For how many days should I use the quick cure?

When I woke up yesterday, Twinkie had checked out on me sometime during the night Whatever that clear strand was, it was there again, with some of the color mixed in again, and she had this place on one side that looked like a nasty bruise. If a fish is constipated, can their stomach explode? I guess it could possibly be some kind of worm, I wish I knew more. I've got a guide book coming in the mail that should be able to help me out. Hopefully it'll be here soon. It's supposed to be a guide to freshwater aquariums. I'm definately going to continue coming here for advice though. I better be going for now though, I have fishes to feed and work to get ready for. I'll be entering my list of fishes later, with the names I've given them, and a little about each. Thanks for all the help and I'll see you guys later

 

[Kari]

Oh yeah, one other question I've been meaning to ask...aquarium gravel...can it get infected with, or carry, any of these diseases? And if so, is it best to get rid of the gravel and get fresh, new gravel?

 

[An t-iasg]

I'm sorry about Twinkie Was he the guppy? Long white strands can mean an internal parasite infection. The bruise could have been a sign of internal bleeding. Here's a food that treats internal parasites. You could try it if any of your fish have the white or slimy strands again. http://www.aquariumguys.com/pepsofood.html

Ich can live in the gravel during their cyst stage. If you have gravel in your bowls, try to scoop it out. It may be difficult enough for you to treat in a bowl, so removing the gravel would help. The cysts will still be present, (and they are microscopic so you won't see them) but without the gravel it may be easier for you to siphon some water from the bottom of the bowl and remove some cysts. In a bowl I would use a turkey baster to remove water. You can leave the betta in the bowl while doing this, and it will be less stressful on him. How long to use the Quick Cure? Read the directions -- I don't have any here. Usually you want to treat for 7 days. Since your water may be on the cool side, the ich lifecycle lasts a bit longer at cooler temps. So if the fish don't appear stressed, I would use it for 10 days. Remember to do a water change every day before dosing the med for that day.

I was thinking about one of the things I said before, about the 2.5 gallon MiniBow. This is an good small aquarium (I got mine at Wal-Mart but I don't get fish there!). It comes with filtration and you can add a heater. But it's rather expensive and if you got 4 of them it might be close to $100. Having one would be good for a QT tank, but I would consider getting the 10 gallon tanks and dividing them for the bettas. I wouldn't put more than 2 bettas in a 10 gallon, with a divider, of course. Also, later on, if you wanted to, you could put something else in the 10 gallon. It offers more flexibility than buying several MiniBows. Hope that helped.

 

[Kari]

Twinkie was my yellow female guppy, both the male guppies had died before I was able to find this site. I'm hoping to add more later, but I need to look into their care more, it seems they're more sensitive than, say, the mollies and platies. I miss my 'little' fishes (guppies, tetras, and rasboras)

You said to do a water change before adding the meds each day...what percentage of a water change do you think would be best? And it's okay to leave the bottom of the bowl bare, with no gravel or anything? I agree, it would seem to be the most sanitary thing for them, but I thought it was needed to build up all the nitrates and nitrites and all that stuff (forgive me, but I get lost trying to figure those things out, I'm looking forward to getting the parameter test kits, so maybe it'll make a little more sense)
I'm also wondering...the bettas aren't in heated bowls or anything, so why isn't this ich getting more progressive? I guess my only concern is that I'm getting paranoid at every little thing I see, after losing so many fish, and I don't want to over medicate or medicate when they don't need it. I wish they made test strips that you could dip and it would tell you what the problem is and how to cure it! For ich and all this other stuff. I never thought bringing home two pie-eyed goldfish from Wal-Mart could go THIS far And now I couldn't see letting go of any of them.

Oh yeah, I promised a 'meet the fishes', didn't I? Okay, here's how it started....

I saw these cute little goldfish (who are now the lords of their tank, they're so darn big!) and brought them home. Their names are Marlin and Nemo. I only had a 5 gallon tank then, and had NO CLUE how HUGE these things could get. Marlin and Nemo are both all orange, except for a little white on their 'chin'. Then came Angel and Tiger. Angel is a white (albino?) goldfish, and Tiger is the black and orange marble color.
STILL before I realized how big they could get, I saw how cute these other 4 were...Stripe, when I bought him, looked like he had a stripe straight from the tip of his nose to the ends of his tail fins. He reminded me of the Gremlin, 'Stripe'. Skid looked like he had a black skidmark down his back to his tail fins. Both of them have changed some, and neither have black anywhere except their tail fins now, but I can still tell them apart Tipper just has orange on the top of her, white on the bottom, and a little black tip on the tip of her tail fin. Peaches is orange on top and white on bottom.

I got Google and Wally when I got the last four goldfish. Google and Wally are my black moors. Google's kinda puny, I'm a little worried about him, but he's always seemed that way. I just recently noticed that while Wally seems to be thriving and getting bigger by the day, Google's pretty far behind. I think he might have birth defects or something. No other real signs of problems with him though.

The plecos...there's one that's bigger than the other three, and his name is Gus. There was another pleco I got at the same time, but he died when I was changing the tanks out. I had set him in a bowl with Gus, and somehow he managed to get out, and fell on the floor...he was stepped on before anyone even realized he wasn't in the bowl. He was still alive then, and we tried getting him back in the water, but he died within a half hour, possibly just from the sheer shock of it.

I got three more, one of them died, and I got another, and they're all pretty much the same size. Their names are Brownie, Chip, and Hershey.

I'm savin the tropical tank for tomorrow, it's past my bedtime

 

[An t-iasg]

For the bowls, I would do about 40-50% water change. You can leave the bottom bare for now. You're changing enough water every day that the ammonia probably won't build up. But yes, it's a good idea to get your test kits

The gravel and decorations will hold the beneficial bacteria that you need to cycle. The filter media holds the majority of the bacterial colony. You don't want the nitrites and nitrates to build up. A properly cycled tank will have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 20-40 ppm nitratres. The thing that you do want to "build up" is the colony of good bacteria. The bacteria changes the fish's wastes - ammonia - to nitrites. Another type of bacteria changes the nitrites to nitrates. You remove some nitrates during a water change, or live plants will absorb some of them.

In a small bowl without a filter, I really don't know how much cycling you'll get. The bacteria need a good filter media to live, like a sponge or ceramic rings, bio-balls, or other bio media. I have a media from Eheim in my filter. It looks like gray gravel but it's made of sintered glass and has a large surface area to hold lots of bacteria. Also the filter passes water through it to come in contact with the media. Without water movement, you may not get much of a cycle. That's why small bowls generally need to have a water change 3 to 4 times a week. So, a properly cycled tank reduces your maintenance.

I'm also wondering...the bettas aren't in heated bowls or anything, so why isn't this ich getting more progressive?

Because they aren't in heated bowls! The ich lifecycle lasts for about a week at temps in the high 80s. At lower temps (your bowls are probably in the mid 70s) the cycle could take longer. The higher temps will kill the ich at all its life stages. If you're using medicine, the ich is only affected by the meds when it's in the free-swimming stage. When it's encased on the fish or a cyst at the bottom of the tank, meds generally won't kill it. That's why, if the fish are not stressed by the meds, you may need to keep them up a little longer, because the life cycle is going to last a little longer at a lower temperature.

You'll have to post pics of your goldfish. I don't have any but I think they are beautiful fish. Of course we can tell our fish apart My husband calls my bettas "Betta 5" and "'Betta 6". I even put a name label on their tanks! So then I call him "Husband 1" LOLOL!

Sorry about your pleco...my pleco died recently too.

 

[Kari]

At least your husband makes an attempt to differentiate...my fiance just calles all mine 'the fish' or 'the fishes', or when I'm spending money to buy more, or buy alot of stuff for them, the '%$*( fishes'! LOL When I got the statement from Wal-Mart that had an estimate on how much all the fish I'd bought there were worth, J's (my fiance) jaw dropped when he saw it 8O I told him there were fish lovers that had spent 10 times that amount on just ONE fish, so cheer up! It was only about $80, I don't think that's TOO bad. Of course, that's not including any of the goldfish; or tanks, accessories, meds, etc. But it STILL isn't TOO bad...YET Wait'll he has to build the goldfish pond, THEN he can start gripin more

My bettas are easy to tell apart, especially all the males. Originally, I was trying to stay away from the bettas. Although they were beautiful, and always looked so pitiful sitting in those little plastic bowls, I thought they'd harm my other fish. Then I found out that you CAN put them in a tropical tank, as long as you monitor them and they don't get aggressive with the other fish. It was going so successfully too, at first.
Dragon (my first male betta that was given to me by a friend) was a deep blue color, and he was GORGEOUS! He had a crimson flare. I hated him being the only betta in there, so I got him a mate, Scarlett. Scarlett's body looks to be a brown color, and her fins are red with some light, frosted blue highlighting.
After I'd had those two for about a month, I'd been watching for an all white male betta. I'd seen them before and thought they were beautiful. I ended up finding these two whose coloring looked like stonewashed jeans. Well, they weren't all white, and I really didn't have the money at the time, so I left them. The next two times I went back, they were still there. The third time I went back, they were the only two left, and they were definately being left unattended, and in poor conditions. Of course, I had to take them home at that point! I'd even bought bottled water for them, which J had to razz me about (He doesn't get that you can't just throw water in there, straight from the tap ) It ended up being a lifesaver though, because there was another store I had to stop at on the way home, and I'd been able to see the one betta in his bowl from Wal-Mart to the next store, but I couldn't see the other betta, and decided to check before I went in, and his bowl had tipped, there had been just enough water for him to keep his face in, so I quickly dumped the bottled water in there. I kept him, his name's Levi, and the other like him I gave to my friend that had given me Dragon. She had also gotten two bettas, and given me one, but hers had died.
I was determined not to get anymore bettas though, because I was running out of things to put them in, and I didn't like seeing them in those tiny bowls. Keep in mind that I'd only seen bettas in very small bowls til then. Anyone I knew who'd ever had one had kept them in those teeny tiny betta bowls that you can get at Wal-Mart for about 3 or 4 bucks, you know, the ones that only hold about a cup and a half to two cups of water?
Then Dragon died on me quickly. His fins rotted almost completely off overnight one night, and I took him out of the big tank and tried to nurse him back to health, but he ended up dying on me within a couple days.
I got Hannibal, a/k/a The Red Dragon, a/k/a Blue Eyes, Red Dragon (like Yugi-Oh's Blue Eyes, White Dragon...kids idea ) I thought Scarlett might like having a mate that was more her color...don't ask where I got that logic, maybe it was just an excuse to get him, he was pretty
Then, within a couple weeks, I saw one that had a lavender colored body, but his fins were tri-colored, going from a deep maroon, to a purple, and then back to lavender at the tips. He looks like a flower when he flares up I named him Prince.
The following week, I saw another one that looked almost identical, but is an iridescent white color where Prince is lavender. I had to bring him home too, and his name is Falcore, after the dog/dragon looking thing in the movie 'The NeverEnding Story'. Within a couple weeks of getting Prince and Falcore, Hannibal started getting sick in the big tank, just like Dragon had. I had to pull him out too. I've been able to save him so far, and it seems like he's really perked up quite a bit since putting him in the little one gallon tank.
My theory when I started getting the female bettas was to make sure that the male bettas didn't get lonely. I knew I couldn't keep male bettas together, so I figured I'd get them female companions. (I didn't know what I know now, about how male and female bettas generally interact, Dragon and Scarlett had gotten along really well, it seemed) Scarlett and Hannibal seemed to get along pretty well too, usually, when they were in the big tank.
However, I tried to put Scarlett in the small tank with Hannibal, and at first it seemed so cute. He would nip at her tail a little, she even smacked him right in the face with her tail once, which had me rollin, but feeling so sorry for Hannibal! And when I'd go in there to watch them, he'd put himself between me and her, like he was in full alert protector mode. I thought that was really sweet, but within an hour or so, I noticed that those 'nips' at her tail were getting to be more like chomps, and her fins began looking ragged, so I immediately put her back in the big tank. I'd also gotten two other females, one was already in a bowl with one of the male bettas. She hid alot, but it didn't seem to be so bad til I noticed her fins were getting frayed too. Her name is Ursula, and she's smaller than Scarlett, and appears black, or dark grey until the light hits her and shows off her dark green highlights. She's pretty prickly with other fish, but doesn't get aggressive with them unless they get too close to her. Then she just nips at them enough to get them out of her space.
My other female, Marina, looks alot like Scarlett in her body, but her fins are a frosty, light blue color, with some crimson lining. Almost opposite the coloring of Scarlett's fins. When the light hits her, she's got a teal colored look to her. She's almost as big as Scarlett, and is catching up rather quickly. I'd never even tried to put her with any of the males, I'd gotten her right before I noticed how beaten up the other female bettas were getting, so now they're all three in the tropical tank. My first attempt to put Scarlett and Marina in a smaller tank together didn't go over well. Scarlett didn't seem to take to Marina at all, and got aggressive with her. Then I decided to put all three in the bigger tank, I'd figured that Marina and Ursula could handle Scarlett if they stuck together. Oddly enough, at first, in the bigger tank, Marina hung out by Scarlett most of the time, and Ursula just stayed to herself. I noticed that Marina would often go check on Ursula though. Now it seems that Marina has taken Ursula under her wing, and is hanging out with her most of the time.

Okay, those are the bettas, and I have yet to get to the tropicals...next time

 

[Kari]

Okay, it's the next time...

The tropical tank...

My biggest fish in the tropical tank is Jack, he's a dalmatian molly. Keep in mind that I don't REALLY know the sexes of any of the fishes, except the bettas and the guppies. So I'm NOT real sure that he IS a he...I suppose if I ever find out he's a girl, I could change his name to Jackie O Anywho...I have three smaller dalmatian mollies, and their names are Yacko, Wacko, and Dot. I have one itty bitty molly that appeared to be all white when I got him, since then, he's grown into some color. There's a light grey shading across the top of him, so I ended up naming him Shadow.
I have 3 yellow mickey platies that I think are gorgeous. They have red highlighting around their fins, and two of them are pretty big now. The two bigger ones are Mickey and Minnie, and the smaller yellow one is Pluto.
I have another mickey platie that's all silver except for the mickey head, his name is Goofy. I'm worried about him, I think he's got some sort of birth defect. I don't think his gills are developing properly or something. I'll try to explain what I mean. The rest of the fish are kind of in an oval shape, from their mouths to where their tail fins start. To me, it almost looks like they have a chin. But not Goofy. It's like a straight line from the bottom lip to the fins on the bottom of his body. It's not rounded or anything. I also noticed that his gills are small, and don't seem to be growing with the rest of his body, and I think that might be a factor, but I don't know.
I have two other platies, Vader and Maul. They were my first platies in the tank and appear to be happy and healthy. They've grown quite a bit, but aren't much bigger than my biggest mickey platies. They're a silver color, with red and black markings.
Daphne is my last of four guppies. I'm worried about her now too. I've noticed that she's not hanging out with any of the other fish, and she's staying to herself, off to the side. I've also noticed that when the other fish go around her, they just mow right into her. Not attacking her or anything, but it looks like bullying or something, like they're shoving her around. I guess that could be due to the fact that she's the only one of her kind in the tank anymore. I don't know about that either, though.
I already covered the female bettas in my last post, so that's the last of my fishes