I've Jumped Over the Planted Tank fence!
- Thread starter pitt420dude
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Peyton
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I dose two tanks. One is a 40gal the other a 29gal and IIRC a pound of kno3 lasted about a year. kh2po4, csm+b, and K2so4 lasted about 1.5-2 years.
It's hard to judge co2 but I would say it will last close to a year. I also have a ten pound tank and mine lasted about that long. When I took mine in to have it refilled they had a 20lb tank filled and ready to go for $80 so I bought that one two. I should be set for the next 3 years or so
.
OP
OP
pitt420dude
Aquarium Advice Addict
Algea is still becomming a problem. This will be the first full week of using a proper EI schedule, so I guess now is the best time to go ahead and bleach dip my plants, scrape the glass and stort of start fresh.
I'd really hate to have to re-scape when I get my driftwood though, so maybe I'll hold off on it.
I got some new plants (thanks justonemore20) this weekend and have as many as I think I can fit with my footprint, though I still would like more foreground plants.
I have green spot algea which hopefully will go away with increased PWCs adn phosphates, but there is this tuft like stuff that is really spreading fast. I cut back on my lighting so we will see what happens, increased CO2, started the EI dosing after a big PWC last night. Is there anything else I can do besides scraping every leaf? I bought two more ottos and an SAE last night but everyone seems to think that algea eaters don't really do anything; it will still grow if it can.
I'd really hate to have to re-scape when I get my driftwood though, so maybe I'll hold off on it.
I got some new plants (thanks justonemore20) this weekend and have as many as I think I can fit with my footprint, though I still would like more foreground plants.
I have green spot algea which hopefully will go away with increased PWCs adn phosphates, but there is this tuft like stuff that is really spreading fast. I cut back on my lighting so we will see what happens, increased CO2, started the EI dosing after a big PWC last night. Is there anything else I can do besides scraping every leaf? I bought two more ottos and an SAE last night but everyone seems to think that algea eaters don't really do anything; it will still grow if it can.
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happygirl65
Aquarium Advice Addict
You really have to give it some time. Remove the algae that you can manually right before a water change, remove the leaves with the more stubborn algae, even if it is a lot of removal it will grow back. Plus you will get more shiny new leaves.
You may not need to remove plants and dip them if you keep up with removing the effected leaves etc. A little green spot algae is pretty normal and it is the last one to dissapear. I would concentrate on the fuzzy stuff that is all over the plants especially.
Also spot treating with hydrogen peroxide can be helpful if needed.
This tuft like stuff...what color is it?
It is true that algae eaters can only do so much. They can help keep things in check once it is balanced though so they are not a total waste...plus they are interesting and fun to watch in my opinion....love the ottos.....my kids squeel and say "look it's a little guy!" they love to watch them cruising the tank.
Oh and if you are still dealing with a mini cycle it can jump start algae so extra PWC might be helpful as well.
Plus you will get more shiny new leaves. You may not need to remove plants and dip them if you keep up with removing the effected leaves etc. A little green spot algae is pretty normal and it is the last one to dissapear. I would concentrate on the fuzzy stuff that is all over the plants especially.
Also spot treating with hydrogen peroxide can be helpful if needed.
This tuft like stuff...what color is it?
It is true that algae eaters can only do so much. They can help keep things in check once it is balanced though so they are not a total waste...plus they are interesting and fun to watch in my opinion....love the ottos.....my kids squeel and say "look it's a little guy!" they love to watch them cruising the tank.
Oh and if you are still dealing with a mini cycle it can jump start algae so extra PWC might be helpful as well.
OP
OP
pitt420dude
Aquarium Advice Addict
This tuft like stuff...what color is it?
It's grey. I think it may be black beard algea.
Though in other places it looks greenish. This could be a different kind though (staghorn or hair maybe?).
neilanh
Sliced Bread
I wouldn't do the dips right now. Let the tank settle in, the decide if you need to go that route. It takes a good 2-4 weeks for a new fert routine to really get things going in a tank, so I wouldn't do anything drastic before then.
As for that nasty stuff you have, get a couple nerite snails, they love it.
As for that nasty stuff you have, get a couple nerite snails, they love it.
OP
OP
pitt420dude
Aquarium Advice Addict
Snails seem to be a staple of any planted tank. They're that good eh?
I'm concerned because (for the billionth time in this thread) I'm indecisive, and I've heard that snails are a one-way street. I know they don't harm plants, so I guess they can only help. I'll look into getting them. I really like shrimp too so I'll have to get an invert cleanup crew going.
I'm concerned because (for the billionth time in this thread) I'm indecisive, and I've heard that snails are a one-way street. I know they don't harm plants, so I guess they can only help. I'll look into getting them. I really like shrimp too so I'll have to get an invert cleanup crew going.
rich311k
Aquarium Advice Addict
Buy enough plants or trade them and you will get snails.
neilanh
Sliced Bread
The nice thing about the nerites is that they won't successfully reproduce in freshwater, so you won't end up with millions and billions of them, like you can with pond or other types of snails.
They do tend to leave little white eggs everywhere tho, but they don't yield any babies.
I don't think shrimp will survive in your tank, however. They'll most likely make for an expensive snack.
They do tend to leave little white eggs everywhere tho, but they don't yield any babies.
I don't think shrimp will survive in your tank, however. They'll most likely make for an expensive snack.
OP
OP
pitt420dude
Aquarium Advice Addict
Yep, though I did have a nice big ghost shrimp for a long while, any smaller ones would probably get eaten. I don't know for sure b/c I havent tried them in a long while; I was considering tryign again but the ones at the LFS were TINY.
Okay I did some more reading on my algea problem and I'm pretty sure this is what I have:
BRUSH ALGAE:
This stinks! I've read that it is NEVER a problem in ARLC tanks, so I'm thinking of putting some baking soda in my tank tonight to help buffer it and keep the ph higher. THough I realize this can be entering a world of pain, I think I'm standing on the doorstep to a world of pain if I let this algea get bad, which it is NOT getting any better.
Should I shut the lights off or cut back even more to 6 or 7 hours (remember I'm only running 108w). I've heard this doesnt help much with this stuff. Should I cut all the leaves that have it off (which is about half of the leaves in the tank)? or shoudl I do nothing and let my EI fert take its course (but at the same time, probably watch the brush algea take over everything?)
I'd even do a bleach dip tonight if I thought it would nip it in the bud. I really don't know what to do here, I'm sort of conflicted between two courses of action:
(1) Don't over react, get out what I can but generally leave things teh same and just let my plants and ferts do their thing and hope for the best, or (2) React to stop it before it becomes a bigger problem (IF it would become a bigger problem, I dont have a crystal ball) by drastically cutting about half the leaves off of every plant, and bleach dipping what is left or by dosing excell or using hydrogen peroxide (which I have no idea how to use to kill algae).
My CO2 has been fluctuating, so this is probably the culprit. Friday my drop checker was yellowish so I turned it down, and yesterday it was bluish so I turned it up. I'm narrowing it down. I'll try to get it where it needs to be tonight and just leave it. Does this mean I should leave it run at night too? Also, for the temporary solution, should I get excel and triple dose it, or would this cause problems because I just started EI? The excell treatement definitely seems like the safest and most effective so far, IMHO that is.
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neilanh
Sliced Bread
If the algae is isolated right now, I'd spot treat with excel rather than run heavy dosages in your entire water column. Turn off all your filtration and let the water go still, then using a syringe or turkey baster or something administer the excel directly onto the affected areas. Leave it be for about 10 minutes, then turn your filtration back on. Try doing this a few days in a row. I've never personaly tried this with this type of algae, but it won't hurt anything to do so.
I think your photoperiod right now is fine. The one difference that I do may benefit you some. I run half of my lighting for 2 hours, then full power 5 hours, then the other half for 2 more hours. The CO2 comes on with the first set of lights, then shuts off at the cut back to half power for the last 2 hours. This allows time before your full power for the CO2 level in the tank to get up and stabilize since it's not being run at night. not that this is a right answer, but it's just the way I run all of my tanks with high light.
I agree you really need to get your CO2 stabilized, but again, you're still probably in the break-in period of your regulator and these are all just part of the growing pains. Remember, almost nothing in this hobby happens fast, so patience is the key.
Whatever you do, don't do the copper treatment that quote mentioned. You'll regret it in the long run.
I think your photoperiod right now is fine. The one difference that I do may benefit you some. I run half of my lighting for 2 hours, then full power 5 hours, then the other half for 2 more hours. The CO2 comes on with the first set of lights, then shuts off at the cut back to half power for the last 2 hours. This allows time before your full power for the CO2 level in the tank to get up and stabilize since it's not being run at night. not that this is a right answer, but it's just the way I run all of my tanks with high light.
I agree you really need to get your CO2 stabilized, but again, you're still probably in the break-in period of your regulator and these are all just part of the growing pains. Remember, almost nothing in this hobby happens fast, so patience is the key.
Whatever you do, don't do the copper treatment that quote mentioned. You'll regret it in the long run.
OP
OP
pitt420dude
Aquarium Advice Addict
I would not say the alge is isolated, as almost every leaf in the tank has some on it. As far as the BBA goes though, it is on some and not on others.
For my photperiod I completely stopped running both lights at the same time. I think maybe doing this (with fluctuating CO2) is what allowed the BBA its foothold. I did notice on one java fern I got at my LFS, its roots looked particularly fuzzy, so I think I may have brought it into the tank that way. I've also heard that low nitrates and low CO2 will help it to grow too, and that once things get in order it will go away on its own. Is this true? In "perfect" plant growing conditions with it actually die off on its own?
My drop checker showed a rich green when I shut it off yesterday, so I bumped it up a tinsy tiny little bit, so hopefully I'll come home to a green/greenish yellow which should be around 30-45ppm, perfectly fine for fish right?
I can tell you that at this bps rate I'm seeing a LOT of co2 release at the surface, but I figure with a 10lb tank, big deal right? SO it will only last me 1 year instead of a year and a half or something. At the end of the day we are talking about a difference of a few dollars a month: no big deal. I'm thinking of rollling up a strip of filter material and placing it in the spraybar to hold in place/break up the size of the bubbles going into the tank. Do you think this would work, or would it restrict the water flow too much? Recall my DIY reactor is hooked up to the returnflow (up flow) of my sump, so the bubbles are rising with the water.
For my photperiod I completely stopped running both lights at the same time. I think maybe doing this (with fluctuating CO2) is what allowed the BBA its foothold. I did notice on one java fern I got at my LFS, its roots looked particularly fuzzy, so I think I may have brought it into the tank that way. I've also heard that low nitrates and low CO2 will help it to grow too, and that once things get in order it will go away on its own. Is this true? In "perfect" plant growing conditions with it actually die off on its own?
My drop checker showed a rich green when I shut it off yesterday, so I bumped it up a tinsy tiny little bit, so hopefully I'll come home to a green/greenish yellow which should be around 30-45ppm, perfectly fine for fish right?
I can tell you that at this bps rate I'm seeing a LOT of co2 release at the surface, but I figure with a 10lb tank, big deal right? SO it will only last me 1 year instead of a year and a half or something. At the end of the day we are talking about a difference of a few dollars a month: no big deal. I'm thinking of rollling up a strip of filter material and placing it in the spraybar to hold in place/break up the size of the bubbles going into the tank. Do you think this would work, or would it restrict the water flow too much? Recall my DIY reactor is hooked up to the returnflow (up flow) of my sump, so the bubbles are rising with the water.
BBA does not tend to go away on it's own, it just stops spreading once you fix the situation. You'll want to either treat the affected leaves with Flourish Excel, or remove them. With your type of setup, low (below 30ppm) fluctuating CO2 levels is the most likely cause. Once you can get your CO2 levels to stay consistantly above 30ppm it should stop spreading.
The Green Spot Algae tends to be mostly on glass, but may be found on leaves as well. It does tend to go away on it's own once the situation is resolved. Main cause is low Phosphates as you've already mentioned. Up your dosing (as you've done) and use a little elbow grease to scrape it off the glass (if glass and not acrylic a straight razor blade works well, otherwise a scrape of polyfiber works on either). No need to remove the affected leaves unless they are so densely covered that they aren't getting enough light and being damaged as a result.
The Green Spot Algae tends to be mostly on glass, but may be found on leaves as well. It does tend to go away on it's own once the situation is resolved. Main cause is low Phosphates as you've already mentioned. Up your dosing (as you've done) and use a little elbow grease to scrape it off the glass (if glass and not acrylic a straight razor blade works well, otherwise a scrape of polyfiber works on either). No need to remove the affected leaves unless they are so densely covered that they aren't getting enough light and being damaged as a result.
OP
OP
pitt420dude
Aquarium Advice Addict
Just an update (with an abundance of smileys b/c it's friday
):
Livestock:
With the addition of an SAE and three black mollies, my algea eating crew now consists of three plecos (one of em is a full grown clown who has been leaving the DW alot more lately for some reason), two otos, a red tail shark, and the SAE and mollies. I really want some Malaysian Trumpet Snails. Do these multiply, b/c I'd love to buy some off of an AA member who has more than they want and be able to cultivate my own. I know they'd have plenty to eat which brings me to the next topic...
ALGAE:
The BBA is really the only stuff that bothers me, b/c the green spot isn't that bad. I keep cutting off the leaves of where it is getting bad. On my java fern windelov, I dipped it's leaves in hydrogen peroxide so I think that BBA is dieing. It seems to have stopped spreading. Maybe it was the 50% water change or the addition of ferts (EI method) but it looks like it isn't coming back too fast, if at all.
PLANTS:
I finally got the plant I ordered w/ my drop checker, it is called fissidens splachiodora or something very close to that. It looks like a moss, is about the size of two post-it-notes side by side, and arrived alive (from singapore!). Last night I noticed bubbles in it and am not sure if they were just getting trapped
or if it was pearling.
That is not until I noticed what seemed to be remniscent (sp?) of shooting stars thoughout my tank. ONly instead of going down they were going up. It seemed random at first, like gouramis were just "purging" their labrythinths or something until I watched closely and saw it was coming from my plants.
THats right! PEARLING!
Sweet! I know it's not that thrilling but its the first I've seen and it means I must be doing something right. Right? Tiny little bubbles would form and then slowly grow bigger and bigger, mostly under the leaves of my Amazons, but then I noticed also on my ludwigia, and on TOP of my java fern, until they just couldn't take it anymore and they'd bolt for higher pastures. Also I saw some in the fissidens as mentioned earlier.
At the moment the plants don't seem to be growing extremely fast, but I do see new shoots, roots, and leaves. It may not be any faster than I'm cutting the larger leaves off due to algae though, so right now I'd say it's tied.
I plan on getting riccia or glosso or HC or something to be able to completely cover my back wall. I want a solid, opaque and live green background to replace the painted blue and hope to use plants stapled in between crochet nets to accomplish it. I thought this was a great idea when I saw it.
They don't need to be in the soil do they? Can't they get what they need from the water column? ON that note, are there any aquatic plant "vines" that will root in the substrate but grow/wrap around driftwood? I'd love to have a vine plant.
Technology:
I've been running my photoperiod from 3:30pm to 11:30pm, so it's on when I'm home. It's only at 108w now, but maybe two or three weeks into EI I can bump it up, and run all 216 for the three or four hours of "mid-day"? I'm asking?
My drop checker is showing a nice greenish-yellow and has been for a few days now. I put some filter-floss in the output of my spraybar to break up the co2 bubbles that weren't getting diffused and were just surfacing and popping. It has reduced the flow somewhat but the bubbles are a much finer mist now. I still have to run my CO2 insanely fast, more bps than I could even hope to count. At this rate I'm having a tough time getting 100% diffusion which annoys me
. I was considering adding a loop so for at least for a foot or two, the bubbles would actually be attempting to rise against a downflow. As it is now they rise with the current and get misted into the tank.
Any Ideas or suggestions? I guess b/c it is 65 gal and b/c I have a sump, skimmer, etc. it is really tough to maintain a high ppm. At $10-15 for a refill, I'm not extremely concerned about the economic loss of inefficient co2 diffusion, however is it bad for the environment, or health?
DRIFTWOOD:
I ordered the "small package" from Manzanita Burlworks - The Source for Quality Handcrafted Manzanita Products and as of a few days ago, they still had not shipped it, which is kind of disappointing
since I think I ordered it on 3/27.
WHen it arrives I'll soak it for a few days, but really don't mind if it leaches some tannins b/c I like the look, and with the 50% PWC's that EI necessitates, I imagine it won't have an opportunity to really affect things drastically. I hope I can get it to sink. ANy thoughts or advice on this, or things to be wary of due to the affects of the tannic acid?
I'm waiting to launch my full on assault against algea (either with triple dosing Seachem Excel, or with an out of tank peroxide dip of the algae-ridden plants), scrape the glass, and rescape the tank, until my driftwood gets here and is ready to go in.
Pics will follow this weekend.
): Livestock:
With the addition of an SAE and three black mollies, my algea eating crew now consists of three plecos (one of em is a full grown clown who has been leaving the DW alot more lately for some reason), two otos, a red tail shark, and the SAE and mollies. I really want some Malaysian Trumpet Snails. Do these multiply, b/c I'd love to buy some off of an AA member who has more than they want and be able to cultivate my own. I know they'd have plenty to eat which brings me to the next topic...
ALGAE:The BBA is really the only stuff that bothers me, b/c the green spot isn't that bad. I keep cutting off the leaves of where it is getting bad. On my java fern windelov, I dipped it's leaves in hydrogen peroxide so I think that BBA is dieing. It seems to have stopped spreading. Maybe it was the 50% water change or the addition of ferts (EI method) but it looks like it isn't coming back too fast, if at all.
PLANTS:
I finally got the plant I ordered w/ my drop checker, it is called fissidens splachiodora or something very close to that. It looks like a moss, is about the size of two post-it-notes side by side, and arrived alive (from singapore!). Last night I noticed bubbles in it and am not sure if they were just getting trapped
or if it was pearling.
That is not until I noticed what seemed to be remniscent (sp?) of shooting stars thoughout my tank. ONly instead of going down they were going up. It seemed random at first, like gouramis were just "purging" their labrythinths or something until I watched closely and saw it was coming from my plants.
THats right! PEARLING!
Sweet! I know it's not that thrilling but its the first I've seen and it means I must be doing something right. Right? Tiny little bubbles would form and then slowly grow bigger and bigger, mostly under the leaves of my Amazons, but then I noticed also on my ludwigia, and on TOP of my java fern, until they just couldn't take it anymore and they'd bolt for higher pastures. Also I saw some in the fissidens as mentioned earlier. At the moment the plants don't seem to be growing extremely fast, but I do see new shoots, roots, and leaves. It may not be any faster than I'm cutting the larger leaves off due to algae though, so right now I'd say it's tied.
I plan on getting riccia or glosso or HC or something to be able to completely cover my back wall. I want a solid, opaque and live green background to replace the painted blue and hope to use plants stapled in between crochet nets to accomplish it. I thought this was a great idea when I saw it.
They don't need to be in the soil do they? Can't they get what they need from the water column? ON that note, are there any aquatic plant "vines" that will root in the substrate but grow/wrap around driftwood? I'd love to have a vine plant. Technology:
I've been running my photoperiod from 3:30pm to 11:30pm, so it's on when I'm home. It's only at 108w now, but maybe two or three weeks into EI I can bump it up, and run all 216
for the three or four hours of "mid-day"? I'm asking?My drop checker is showing a nice greenish-yellow and has been for a few days now. I put some filter-floss in the output of my spraybar to break up the co2 bubbles that weren't getting diffused and were just surfacing and popping. It has reduced the flow somewhat but the bubbles are a much finer mist now. I still have to run my CO2 insanely fast, more bps than I could even hope to count. At this rate I'm having a tough time getting 100% diffusion which annoys me
. I was considering adding a loop so for at least for a foot or two, the bubbles would actually be attempting to rise against a downflow. As it is now they rise with the current and get misted into the tank.Any Ideas or suggestions? I guess b/c it is 65 gal and b/c I have a sump, skimmer, etc. it is really tough to maintain a high ppm. At $10-15 for a refill, I'm not extremely concerned about the economic loss of inefficient co2 diffusion, however is it bad for the environment, or health?
DRIFTWOOD:
I ordered the "small package" from Manzanita Burlworks - The Source for Quality Handcrafted Manzanita Products and as of a few days ago, they still had not shipped it, which is kind of disappointing
since I think I ordered it on 3/27. WHen it arrives I'll soak it for a few days, but really don't mind if it leaches some tannins b/c I like the look, and with the 50% PWC's that EI necessitates, I imagine it won't have an opportunity to really affect things drastically. I hope I can get it to sink. ANy thoughts or advice on this, or things to be wary of due to the affects of the tannic acid?
I'm waiting to launch my full on assault against algea (either with triple dosing Seachem Excel, or with an out of tank peroxide dip of the algae-ridden plants), scrape the glass, and rescape the tank, until my driftwood gets here and is ready to go in.
Pics will follow this weekend.
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happygirl65
Aquarium Advice Addict
Pearling IS exciting! Don't think it's not. It is that wonderful sign that the plants have taken in all the nutrients they can and the water is super saturated with oxygen which your fish will love.
The gassed off CO2 is not bad for your health....it's largely what you exhale so I don't really see how it could be harmful. Get more house plants to use it up if you think that much is not getting dissolved. They will eat it up out of the air.
With the driftwood, it may lower your pH so watch that too, once again it is not harmful and may not even be noticeable. I just added some DW to my 46 gal tank and it lowered the pH by about .2 which is no big deal really but I had to adjust my pH/CO2 controller so that it would kick on at a lower number in order to keep the sat up. But if you are not using a controller it shouldn't effect what you have to put in at all.
After everything you have gone through to get this going it sounds like everything is really coming together. That is so wonderful.
If the CO2 becomes a real issue I would consider a cannister filter. I got a Fluval 405 on ebay brand new for $130 (for my 90 gal). Might make things easier on you.
The gassed off CO2 is not bad for your health....it's largely what you exhale so I don't really see how it could be harmful. Get more house plants to use it up if you think that much is not getting dissolved.
They will eat it up out of the air. With the driftwood, it may lower your pH so watch that too, once again it is not harmful and may not even be noticeable. I just added some DW to my 46 gal tank and it lowered the pH by about .2 which is no big deal really but I had to adjust my pH/CO2 controller so that it would kick on at a lower number in order to keep the sat up.
But if you are not using a controller it shouldn't effect what you have to put in at all.After everything you have gone through to get this going it sounds like everything is really coming together.
That is so wonderful. If the CO2 becomes a real issue I would consider a cannister filter. I got a Fluval 405 on ebay brand new for $130 (for my 90 gal). Might make things easier on you.
OP
OP
pitt420dude
Aquarium Advice Addict
Ugh! I know it's what I need to do, and I really want the cannister filter, but that would just result in my transforming my 10gal sump into a species tank with 2-3 dwarf puffers and this is not good for business.
With a 55 gal, I could probably get the Fluval 304 for around 75, and the 305 for around 100 (maybe?). I wonder if much has changed between the 304 and the 305 series, besides the year and price.
I CAN get the CO2 ppm that I want, it's just really pumping out to get there, so if my tank only lasts a few months, then I probably will consider getting a new filter. I really love the durability of this setup-though. The skimmer/sump/powerhead have been rock solid for like 10 years now, no problems whatsoever, except the ones I created by trying to get the DIY reactor onto the downflow, and then shifting it to the upflow.
My only concern is that i'm just rapidly burning through and wasting CO2, putting it into the atmosphere and not into the tank. This is especially true since I've watched youtube vids of people's CO2 reactors and they're at like 2 bps. I'm probably between 5-10bps!
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happygirl65
Aquarium Advice Addict
Aww, why not?
Then all those mysterious excess snails that are sure to show up at some point could have a renewed purpose. I know, I know....I am BAD with the MTS (multi tank syndrome) I had four running not to long ago, now three....
OR you could use the 10 as a QT for new fish That is what I am doing with mine.
Then all those mysterious excess snails that are sure to show up at some point could have a renewed purpose.
I know, I know....I am BAD with the MTS (multi tank syndrome) I had four running not to long ago, now three....OR you could use the 10 as a QT for new fish
That is what I am doing with mine.
OP
OP
pitt420dude
Aquarium Advice Addict
STOP IT! You're making want to spend more money, your'e a bad influence! LOL.
I would be soooo suffering from MTS right now if I wasn't so new to the planted thing. It is enough to keep my MTS sated...for the time being. It makes me think of Justonemore20's username!
I would be soooo suffering from MTS right now if I wasn't so new to the planted thing. It is enough to keep my MTS sated...for the time being. It makes me think of Justonemore20's username!
JustOneMore20
Algae Fighter
Haha! Now you see why I have this username....I always want just one more tank!
Need anymore plants? I have more for sale in the classifieds.
happygirl65
Aquarium Advice Addict
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