My First Test Results

[blert]

If I didn't make it clear I'm sorry but here is what it say's: Ammonia is oxydized (neutralized) by Nitrites whose numbers can get off the scale. Over time of the cycle Nitrates will oxydize (neutralize) the Nitrites, and even bring their numbers down over time. And we do control the Nitrate bacteria (not as harmful as the other two) with PWC that a schedule handles most of the time, but still occational chks should be made for the increased nitrates as that count most often goes up first if ammonia is on the increase.
AndyN parameters are not out of spec for this part of the cycle as it would be expected for the Nitrates to stall since their count strength is not up to power to oxydize the nitrites. And it is the nitrites that will now grow to a big count, and nitrates will very soon start to rise in response. Hope this is made more understandable. PP

Not sure where you are getting this info. Nitrite and nitrate are not bacteria and one does not neutralize the other. Here's what happens...
-Fish produce waste.
-Waste, and other detritus, break down into ammonia.
-Ammonia is converted, by bacteria, into nitrite.
-Nitrite is converted, by another bacteria, into nitrate.
-Nitrate is then exported by whatever means, or a combination of, that you choose.

 

[PremativePeat]

"Not sure where you are getting this info. Nitrite and nitrate are not bacteria and one does not neutralize the other. "
Blert, I can gather the proof of statements if you wish, but let me first say I'm not here to overinflate my ego...easy for me to do...so I try to avoid it. I seek to help if I can do that with my time in the aquarium hobby (more than a decade with fish care). And I'm skilled with Internet use and research... there I go head swelling.
First response: your wrong about these are not bacteria, and the name of the first bacteria is called Nitrosomonas we call it Nitrite, and it oxydizes Ammonia that is produced from waste and decay as you said. Nitrosomonas are in the air around us and when ammonia is present anywhere including in the water that bactereia attacts and can produce milking clouding condition to form in the water, for it will explode to consume ammonia its food source. Next to oxydise the Nitrosomonas are Nitrobacter we call this Nitrate bacteria. and what we want to grow in our filters, and inside our tank contents.
I will if you don't want to google search either of these two names now provided... go and support my information with reference link...do I have to do that or will you help answer this information to be correct? I'm not here to flame and have enemies which are all to easy to find, now I haven't asked you for reference to support your claims they are not bacteria. PP

 

[blert]

We do not call the bacteria 'nitrite' and 'nitrate', that's just outright confusing. Nitrite ( NO2 ) and Nitrate ( NO3 ) are chemical compounds of nitrogen and oxygen. They are not bacteria but are the waste products of said bacteria.

 

[PremativePeat]

Using your own words: "
We do not call the bacteria 'nitrite' and 'nitrate', that's just outright confusing. Nitrite ( NO2 ) and Nitrate ( NO3 ) are chemical compounds of nitrogen and oxygen. They are not bacteria but are the waste products of said bacteria.
They are not bacteria but are the waste products of said bacteria
I don't think your worth me wasting time with, and if you want to troll find another for I don't like to get off into another realm over some trivia of words you seek to ground. PP

 

[Hobgob]

I noticed people saying not change your water... If your ph gets close to 6 your should do a pwc to get the ph back up otherwise it can stall out your cycle and crash. The bb can't work in that low of ph and will die off... But it's good you seeded your tank. It will make the cycle much faster this way!

 

[Hobgob]

AndyN, where did you find you fishless cycle information, for I would like to read it over as you use a 4ppm level yet most I have read stay at 5ppm. Nit pic perhaps but I'm that way, so can you give me a reference source please. Kind regards PP

I believe there is a sticky in the forums!

 

[Hobgob]

Using your own words: "
We do not call the bacteria 'nitrite' and 'nitrate', that's just outright confusing. Nitrite ( NO2 ) and Nitrate ( NO3 ) are chemical compounds of nitrogen and oxygen. They are not bacteria but are the waste products of said bacteria.
They are not bacteria but are the waste products of said bacteria
I don't think your worth me wasting time with, and if you want to troll find another for I don't like to get off into another realm over some trivia of words you seek to ground. PP

You need to read the site rules! And you can quote people...

 

[blert]

Using your own words: "
We do not call the bacteria 'nitrite' and 'nitrate', that's just outright confusing. Nitrite ( NO2 ) and Nitrate ( NO3 ) are chemical compounds of nitrogen and oxygen. They are not bacteria but are the waste products of said bacteria.
They are not bacteria but are the waste products of said bacteria
I don't think your worth me wasting time with, and if you want to troll find another for I don't like to get off into another realm over some trivia of words you seek to ground. PP

What? Seriously? I am trying to explain to you that what you are telling this person is wrong! It is not a "troll" or a "mincing of words" nor is it "trivial". To tell someone that nitrite is responsible for the conversion of ammonia is WRONG. To tell someone that nitrate is responsible for the conversion of nitrite is WRONG. Please do your research on the Nitrogen Cycle.

As you, I will waste no more time on you. Please, OP, don't listen to this person for he/she is well MIS-informed.

 

[Hobgob]

"Not sure where you are getting this info. Nitrite and nitrate are not bacteria and one does not neutralize the other. "
Blert, I can gather the proof of statements if you wish, but let me first say I'm not here to overinflate my ego...easy for me to do...so I try to avoid it. I seek to help if I can do that with my time in the aquarium hobby (more than a decade with fish care). And I'm skilled with Internet use and research... there I go head swelling.
First response: your wrong about these are not bacteria, and the name of the first bacteria is called Nitrosomonas we call it Nitrite, and it oxydizes Ammonia that is produced from waste and decay as you said. Nitrosomonas are in the air around us and when ammonia is present anywhere including in the water that bactereia attacts and can produce milking clouding condition to form in the water, for it will explode to consume ammonia its food source. Next to oxydise the Nitrosomonas are Nitrobacter we call this Nitrate bacteria. and what we want to grow in our filters, and inside our tank contents.
I will if you don't want to google search either of these two names now provided... go and support my information with reference link...do I have to do that or will you help answer this information to be correct? I'm not here to flame and have enemies which are all to easy to find, now I haven't asked you for reference to support your claims they are not bacteria. PP

You are so wrong I am sorry but what you are saying is if you take out to much water and don't have any nitrates left then they can't change ammonia into nitrites and back into nitrogen and that your cycle will need to reatart? How cone i can take my filter and put in a new tank and not need to cycle it again. How does nitrate grow on things? Nitrate is in the water measured as ppm( which stands for particles per million. So in the water ___ppm of this water is really nitrate. And why do you believe the Internet so much? It's not always right look at Wikipedia! It's all a bunch of lies put on by people who think they know what they are talking about. Also with everything being oxidized where does the hydrogen atom from the ammonia go? NH3

 

[Hobgob]

Strange results from tonight.....

Dosed up to 4ppm ammonia last night

Ph - 8.0
Ammonia - 2.0ppm
Nitrite - over 5.0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm

Not sure what this is telling me and not sure why my nitrates have disappeared!?

Didn't you do a water change?

 

[AndyN]

Ok let's all take a look at today's results

Last night I dosed up to 4ppm

Ph: 7.8
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: well off scale 5ppm++++
Nitrate: 5ppm

I'm guessing I should dose up to 4ppm again??

Thanks to all who have helped

 

[Hobgob]

remember you must build a strong Nitrate to neutralize nitrite which will drop ammonia to zero...and finally you will drop nitrite to zero. When you make them hit zero.PP

So like I said after a water change I'm going to have to recycle my tank? I don't believe this for one very good reason. When I set up a rearing tub I take all the media for the filter I'm using in it and took it from my ehiem. The filter media has all of the beneficial bacteria on it. I then take water straight from my tap fill up the rear tank and treat the water. I then put the seeded filter into the tank and add all of the little guys that I need and never have ammonia or nitrite present. I only see nitrate show up. And there is not nitrate in my tap water! Now what you are saying is this is not possible because I have no nitrate in my tank?Remember nitrate is a particle in the water! Seems to have worked on every tank I ever need to set up.


If your way was true people would just does nitrates to cycle a tank like some people do for there plants.
Bacteria converts ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrates.

 

[Hobgob]

Ok let's all take a look at today's results

Last night I dosed up to 4ppm

Ph: 7.8
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: well off scale 5ppm++++
Nitrate: 5ppm

I'm guessing I should dose up to 4ppm again??

Thanks to all who have helped

Looks great! Dose back up yes. You could do a water change to get the nitrite back onto the charts if you want to. But I don't think it's needed. People on here do it to monitor it better when 4ppm of ammonia can be changed into nitrate within 24hours and there is nothing else present other then nitrates you are cycled. But it looks good!

 

[PremativePeat]

Hobgob, water Ph is most important to the ammonia presence and water change never really had a chance to be discussed. I used the quote to emphases the use of the persons own words are confusing, for he say’s it is not a bacteria, and then it is…both would be correct since it is both a compound and a bacteria with a name, as these names change with the change in composition.
Blert, you don’t mind making words that I don’t know what I’m talking about, yet offer no links, or articles to substantiate these claims and I can fill this post with articles off the net, but don’t feel it fair. So here are links all explain in detail the nitrogen cycle and I’m gathering a link from a scholarly writing on the subject…written by people whose name are attached PHD’s just in case you want to contest Internet source. Here are the Internet source:
[FONT=FLMKNA+BookAntiqua]References: [/FONT]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061027110613AAQNOdu
http://www.gardencentredirect.co.uk/Article/the-nitrogen-cycle-explained
http://www.thatpetplace.com/nitrogen-cycle_2
For the moment, and sure this won’t end it here.
PP

 

[AndyN]

Looks great! Dose back up yes. You could do a water change to get the nitrite back onto the charts if you want to. But I don't think it's needed. People on here do it to monitor it better when 4ppm of ammonia can be changed into nitrate within 24hours and there is nothing else present other then nitrates you are cycled. But it looks good!

Thanks Hobgob - I will do the change when I start eliminating ammonia in 24hrs - hopefully that will be over the coming days!

I'm away for 48 hours over the weekend, any advice on what to do with the tank? Do I dose up before I leave to keep the bacteria fed?

 

[Hobgob]

Hobgob, water Ph is most important to the ammonia presence and water change never really had a chance to be discussed. I used the quote to emphases the use of the persons own words are confusing, for he say’s it is not a bacteria, and then it is…both would be correct since it is both a compound and a bacteria with a name, as these names change with the change in composition.
Blert, you don’t mind making words that I don’t know what I’m talking about, yet offer no links, or articles to substantiate these claims and I can fill this post with articles off the net, but don’t feel it fair. So here are links all explain in detail the nitrogen cycle and I’m gathering a link from a scholarly writing on the subject…written by people whose name are attached PHD’s just in case you want to contest Internet source. Here are the Internet source:
References: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061027110613AAQNOdu
http://www.gardencentredirect.co.uk/Article/the-nitrogen-cycle-explained
http://www.thatpetplace.com/nitrogen-cycle_2
For the moment, and sure this won’t end it here.
PP

So you are talking about farmers? And how we have to rotate our crops to keep nitrogen in our soil to grow good corn? It's not the same search biological cycle for a fish aquarium. http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

 

[Hobgob]

Thanks Hobgob - I will do the change when I start eliminating ammonia in 24hrs - hopefully that will be over the coming days!

I'm away for 48 hours over the weekend, any advice on what to do with the tank? Do I dose up before I leave to keep the bacteria fed?

Does it up to 4ppm before you leave and the beneficial bacteria can stay alive for at least a week so it will be fine. You could put some fish food in it or a price of table shrimp to give it some ammonia while you are gone.

 

[jetajockey]

Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are not bacteria, they are all forms of nitrogen.

 

[PremativePeat]

hobgob, and blert, here is the first part of the article with both source and title. so You can read up the article in present form. With more results to follow at a later time
.
http://www.umsl.edu/~microbes/pdf/There's%20Something%20Fishy.pdf

[FONT=FLMKLO+BookAntiqua]“There's Something Fishy” [/FONT]


[FONT=FLMKLO+BookAntiqua]The Nitrogen Cycle [/FONT]


[FONT=FLMKLO+BookAntiqua]Science in the Real World [/FONT]


[FONT=FLMKNA+BookAntiqua]Microbes In Action [/FONT]​

[FONT=FLMKNA+BookAntiqua]This is a scholarly article written by people with PHD’s attached to their names [/FONT]
I call the compounds bacteria, as that is the form and words of choice used in all articles written on the subject and why I offer them as reference....You all have no problems understanding what is meant when they are called bacteria or just by their formula name...so what is the purpose of this whole thing with use of a trivia wording did it make anyone understand any more or less,and is it any less to call it trolling if it is the same action...For it took us all off the subject and now I have conflict with three different persons of one word?
If you review all that has been said up to my use of bacteria words what is found to be incorrect, misunderstood, and or implied...I can only hope any one of you viewing this will take the time to follow the links and judge for your self how much of my words were missleading or had a lack of understanding the subject on which this topic is founded. PP

PP

 

[blert]

Ok let's all take a look at today's results

Last night I dosed up to 4ppm

Ph: 7.8
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: well off scale 5ppm++++
Nitrate: 5ppm

I'm guessing I should dose up to 4ppm again??

Thanks to all who have helped

Looks great!
You might want to do a water change just to get the Nitrite reading back onto the chart but you don't have to.
I would skip a day of dosing (it won't hurt the bacteria colonies) and see if the Nitrite comes down a bit.

Thanks Hobgob - I will do the change when I start eliminating ammonia in 24hrs - hopefully that will be over the coming days!

I'm away for 48 hours over the weekend, any advice on what to do with the tank? Do I dose up before I leave to keep the bacteria fed?

Do a 50% PWC, and dose ammonia, right before you leave to help ensure the pH does not crash while you are away.

Hobgob, water Ph is most important to the ammonia presence and water change never really had a chance to be discussed. I used the quote to emphases the use of the persons own words are confusing, for he say’s it is not a bacteria, and then it is…both would be correct since it is both a compound and a bacteria with a name, as these names change with the change in composition.
Blert, you don’t mind making words that I don’t know what I’m talking about, yet offer no links, or articles to substantiate these claims and I can fill this post with articles off the net, but don’t feel it fair. So here are links all explain in detail the nitrogen cycle and I’m gathering a link from a scholarly writing on the subject…written by people whose name are attached PHD’s just in case you want to contest Internet source. Here are the Internet source:
References: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061027110613AAQNOdu
http://www.gardencentredirect.co.uk/Article/the-nitrogen-cycle-explained
http://www.thatpetplace.com/nitrogen-cycle_2
For the moment, and sure this won’t end it here.
PP

Seriously? I thought we were no longer pestering each other but, link away if you must (forewarning: linking Yahoo Answers as a resource usually just ends up with people laughing at you). THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS... You are confusing newbies. Nitrite and Nitrate ARE NOT BACTERIA and calling them so is misinformation.

BTW, I read the article you linked with all the PHDs (and all the other links you posted). Sorry to tell you that nothing in those articles support your position. You might want to read them again.

Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are not bacteria, they are all forms of nitrogen.

Thanks for jumping in jetajockey.