New fish and the water in the bag from the fish shop

[treemanone2003]

Well, that was an interesting debate. Thanks for your opinions ....from all of that, I will NOT put the water into my tank, I don't have a QT, so they will have to go directly into the main tank. I take it a qt would be say, a 20ltr tank, cycled? And how long would you leave the fish in it before transfer, and what do you do with the water in that tank once you do the transfer? Thank you... Love the fact that so many people are so helpful and patient to us newbies, it's nice to be in a group that is passionate about their hobby. I love my fish!!

First off, what I have to say that really caught my eye about your reply, was the word "debate". That's really right on !! As for my OPINION, about your questions, it goes like this. I think a 20l (5g US) is too small for most fish. I would recommend at least 37-75l (10-20g US) is better. Cycled, of course. If your confident with your main tank having no issues, then I would suggest adding a sponge filter to accumulate beneficial bacteria (bb). I have used the advice from my importers, that a minimum of AT LEAST 4 weeks but better to be 5-6 weeks. Again, this is my own personal opinion and experience. As well, it will depend on the fish, invert, plant, etc AND your ability to commit.

With regards to the water after. Another big "debate". As bb requires ammonia to continually keep the cycling consistent, it will depend on your needs/abilities. You can move that filter setup back to your main tank, as kind as it's disease free, or toss it and start over. For me, I put it back in the main unless I see or have an issue. Then I start all over again. For the water in the tank, WC's are they way to go provided you have an ammonia source to keep the bb up to par. If I missed anything, please respond or add to it.

 

[anteatergoanna]

Great advice , thank you. I'm just a novice at the fish keeping and finally ( through great advise on this forum) am beginning to have an idea on what I need to do. My main tank is cycled, and I have just put the small filter in to get the good bacteria, as you recommended. I was thinking of using the small tank for shrimps, to feed my loaches, but due to the amount of people talking qt tanks thought it may be okay for that. I think you are right though saying that it is prob too small for fish. My commitment to my fish is certainly there, they give me so much enjoyment and if I have a death I get very upset, so my priority is to have a safe and lovely environment so my fish are healthy and happy.
I find the difference in opinion from people really good, others bring into the conversation their experiences and it's amazing how varied they are....nothing like a good debate, everyone ends up a bit wiser !!

 

[treemanone2003]

Acclimate the fish, take the fish out with net or hand and place in tank.
You do not want to mix any store water with yours, just in case.

As far as acclimation, I only find it necessary when your pH has a difference of .3 or greater. The fish I get come from an importer that has the same pH as I do so I simply take them out of the bag they come in and drop them right into the tank. It's called "plop and drop". No nets and clean bare hands.

 

[anteatergoanna]

Plop and Drop LOL, sounds like the best way yet. I dont like using nets, always frightened i may hurt the fish. I will ask the fs what there ph and temp is, couldnt see it being too different. Thanks for the advice.

 

[schoeplein]

If you're using a soft net the risk is miniscule (depending on the fish of course). I prefer not to dump the high ammonia bag of liquid into my small tank. Match the temp, pull and drop. I had a much more stringent process for my saltwater tank when I had $30-60++ fish and hundreds if not thousands worth of corals. If/once I get another big tank with a ton of plants and fancier fish, I can see being a lot more particular about things.

It really depends on how much you have to lose.

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[Caliban07]

As far as acclimation, I only find it necessary when your pH has a difference of .3 or greater. The fish I get come from an importer that has the same pH as I do so I simply take them out of the bag they come in and drop them right into the tank. It's called "plop and drop". No nets and clean bare hands.

What about tds? Is that the same too? I use a syringe driver to acclimate over the course of 1 hour regardless.

 

[treemanone2003]

What about tds? Is that the same too? I use a syringe driver to acclimate over the course of 1 hour regardless.

I really can't answer that one. Again, the only concern of mine is pH. GH and KH are also a concern but ONLY when breeding. It's just always been plop and drop for me.

 

[Caliban07]

I really can't answer that one. Again, the only concern of mine is pH. GH and KH are also a concern but ONLY when breeding. It's just always been plop and drop for me.

I'm not having a go it trying to tell you anything you may already be aware of but tds plays a big part of the acclimatisation process and can cause stress if not done slowly.

Slow acclimatisation periods help alleviate stress. This gives a better chance of the fish not contracting any diseases and helps increases the chance a fish has fighting anything it may already have once introduced to superior water quality.

I'm not condescending or patronising here it's just what I have learnt since starting up again.

 

[Jmunroe]

I'm not having a go it trying to tell you anything you may already be aware of but tds plays a big part of the acclimatisation process and can cause stress if not done slowly.

Slow acclimatisation periods help alleviate stress. This gives a better chance of the fish not contracting any diseases and helps increases the chance a fish has fighting anything it may already have once introduced to superior water quality.

I'm not condescending or patronising here it's just what I have learnt since starting up again.

This is correct. The amount of dissolved solids causes osmotic shock in fish when transferring. This is what people often think is pH shock, when in actuality pH shock doesn't really exist. The TDS is often at different levels at different pH and toxins in the water have different effects at different pH levels. If you have time to kill search pH shock myth and you will learn what exactly it is. pH shock is an old aquarium term that has been proven to be in fact osmotic shock basically.


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[schoeplein]

This is correct. The amount of dissolved solids causes osmotic shock in fish when transferring. This is what people often think is pH shock, when in actuality pH shock doesn't really exist. The TDS is often at different levels at different pH and toxins in the water have different effects at different pH levels. If you have time to kill search pH shock myth and you will learn what exactly it is. pH shock is an old aquarium term that has been proven to be in fact osmotic shock basically.


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TDS is even more important in saltwater. There are a few things that can all cause shock to a fish - my tank generally runs about 300ppm, while the bag water is generally much higher (last bag was around 450). Temperature is another. Both are why folks blend their water into the bag before netting and dropping a new fish.

 

[Caliban07]

This is correct. The amount of dissolved solids causes osmotic shock in fish when transferring. This is what people often think is pH shock, when in actuality pH shock doesn't really exist. The TDS is often at different levels at different pH and toxins in the water have different effects at different pH levels. If you have time to kill search pH shock myth and you will learn what exactly it is. pH shock is an old aquarium term that has been proven to be in fact osmotic shock basically.


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Thanks J. Didn't really want to go in depth but I know all about this. Although I don't believe ph shock is a myth. Technically if the ph is greatly different then it is still going to have a negative affect on the fishes and there for it still could be a shock to their system.

Anything that can make a fish stress out is terrible news. It's a double edged sword. A longer acclimatisation period means less impact of differing TDS and ph but the longer the fish stays in the bag the more stressed they become.

Another reason why I leave the lights off for the first couple of days. You can easily tell the difference between a good transition and a bad. A good transition result in the fish exploring it's new surrounding immediately while a bad one usually means hiding in the corner for a day or two, this fish is still acclimatising and IMO the longer it stays like this the higher the risk of the fish contracting disease. The fish may have been disease free. But the process has lowered the immune system enough for ever present opportunistic disease to grab a hold.

A happy fish is a healthy fish. A tank full of happy fishes usually = no problems regardless of water is lurking in the tank.

 

[Delapool]

Yes, I still think ph change is reflecting something - possibly TDS which ph, kh and gh readings are giving us a feel for or maybe just ph/kh .

I've been wondering if ph would be more of a problem when it crosses 7. So say 7.8 to 7.2 fine but 7.3 to 6.7 has more impact.