New tank

[DaleV87]

I finally figured out how to grow these staurgyne repens. I have grown these from tissue culture. They are staying very low and sending side chutes rather than growing up which I consider to be the high light. Once the octopus starting getting out of control I noticed the corner plants starting to reach upwards. Not long and I'll trim and replant the trimmings.
View attachment 1

It's really crowded in here now but some of these will be moving to the 40B once it is set up. Here's a full tank shot:

 

[Fresh2o]

Wow, almost a year between posts (on the previous page).
No shortage of plants in that tank for sure.
Is that a 24/7 up front? I've noticed the same thing with my staur repens: low growth and side shoots. Previous efforts always had slow vertical growth and few side shoots. You can trim those tops and fill in the bare spots.

 

[DaleV87]

Yes Ole Buddy. 24/7 in front and a satellite pro+ in the back.
The 24/7 runs its full cycle all day and the pro+ runs 3 hrs a day.
I just bumped it up a little with a siesta in the middle.

 

[DaleV87]

The staur repens is coming along nicely and will soon receive its first trim and fill in some more. Not bad since it was a tissue culture pack I bought.

 

[Brookster123]

They're staying nice and low. Spreading out sideways. Good growth there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[DaleV87]

Can't seem to get the AR Mini satisfactory. I can see a little potassium deficiency in the mermaid weed lower leaves so I've upped it a bit and keeping the TDS around 150-200.
I see a good sign of lush growth at the water change and then after a day or two back to the same ole dull look.

 

[Fresh2o]

What do you consider a sign of good growth? The coloration (red)? And later in the week the plants seem more brown? If so, this might correlate with dosing, although changes within a few days seem a tad quick. After the next water change, try decreasing the micros in a controlled manner and see if there is a change in this pattern.
I could never get these to look really red (except it would during certain phases of my light cycle).

 

[DaleV87]

It seems at the water change I get a few new leaves with really nice large, red color and long extensions.
By the end of the week I have what appears to be, not wilted but kinda shriveled up type of growth with a more brownish color.
The growth seems to be stunted as well.
Fresh, I too thought that it could be from my dosing so I have cut back to every other day this week with the micros.
What lead me to this was with tons of overtime worked last week I missed a couple days of dosing and saw the AR started looking a little better in that short time of 4-5 days with the new growth.
But then I see others start lacking in areas and I am concerned for them when I make this change but maybe it will be for the better.
Time will tell.

 

[Caliban07]

I have the same issue with AR. Seems they are much more fussy about things than other plants.

Have you considered calcium addition? How hard is your water? Could be a micro issue but I don't dose micros and have the same issue. I'm using a soil substrate for micros which has been successful in the past.

Are you using EI?

 

[DaleV87]

Caliban07 I am using RO water that I purchase and do a 50% change with weekly.
I have been dosing PPS pro dry fert mixture that I have modified.
Mostly I have adjusted to increase the phosphate which I am maintaining at around 5.0 per the chart and increased the potassium. I do have calcium that I could add I believe.
My substrate is eco-complete and a year or so old.
Also my GH holds around 4 and KH around 1-2

 

[Caliban07]

You may need to increase the GH somewhat. You may also have too high a phosphate in comparison to the other ferts which could be causing issues with nutrient competition. especially if calcium is low to begin with. If you are using potassium phosphate as well as potassium nitrate you could have high potassium levels too. Obviously this may not affect some species but others could show symptoms of this. It's just hypothesis at the moment but it is well documented about nutrient competition and uptake as it is just a numbers game.

My kh is also low. Ive switched to using calcium nitrate and dose potassium sulphate separately. It's early days yet so it's hard to say what's going on.

 

[DaleV87]

I have pondered on going back to the original PPS pro formula and running for 3 weeks to see the difference in everything. Maybe worse but as you said and I have pondered in some reading the last couple of days an imbalance within my ferts that I have created.

 

[DaleV87]

Here is a shot of the whole tank..

 

[Bert2oo1]

Here is a shot of the whole tank..
View attachment 298224

Dosing micro's used to make my AR curl. I only dose iron now but have a soil substrate. Also I had curled leafs before I added additional calcium. Mine are a really nice red and grow like weeds.

Micro's/lack of calcium crippled mine so bad that i had to throw all my old ones away and get new ones, even after 3 months they wouldn't untwist or even get any sort of height.

 

[DaleV87]

Dosing micro's used to make my AR curl. I only dose iron now but have a soil substrate. Also I had curled leafs before I added additional calcium. Mine are a really nice red and grow like weeds.

Micro's/lack of calcium crippled mine so bad that i had to throw all my old ones away and get new ones, even after 3 months they wouldn't untwist or even get any sort of height.

Thanks for the input Bert! I am willing to bet you are probably on to something there.
But what doesn't make sense to me is how do people dose EI without having the same results on AR? This is what leads me to believe it's more of a balance within the mixture itself.
I don't have anything to base any of this on other than a little reading. I have never been successful at getting a good balance on a tank yet. This one is the closest I've had with the exception of the AR in it.

 

[Bert2oo1]

Thanks for the input Bert! I am willing to bet you are probably on to something there.
But what doesn't make sense to me is how do people dose EI without having the same results on AR? This is what leads me to believe it's more of a balance within the mixture itself.
I don't have anything to base any of this on other than a little reading. I have never been successful at getting a good balance on a tank yet. This one is the closest I've had with the exception of the AR in it.

Well soft water is a curse to be honest! I had similar issues to you when dosing EI a few months back.

Same substrate
Same filtered water (my TDS is 40 from the tap)
Dosing with the same compounds.

I had twisting and curling growth, fast growth after water change and slow at the end of the week, dull colour, abit of burning on the tips of some plants.

I found my issue was my water was to soft. I now dose calcium 30ppm on water change and 10ppm of MG at change. This bumps my TDS to a start of 280-300. By the end of the week I'm generally 360-400. I also found that due to the lack of hardness my micro's were actually becoming toxic and crippling my plants. Even now after 2 months of everything thriving the rotala I hadn't replaced looked terrible and all new growth would start nice and then melt away to a stem. I threw it out yesterday and kept a few thriving side shoots.

I would highly recommend adding calcium and MG and lowing your micro dosage (if not stopping it completely for a few weeks) and see if u get better results.

 

[Caliban07]

Well soft water is a curse to be honest! I had similar issues to you when dosing EI a few months back.

Same substrate
Same filtered water (my TDS is 40 from the tap)
Dosing with the same compounds.

I had twisting and curling growth, fast growth after water change and slow at the end of the week, dull colour, abit of burning on the tips of some plants.

I found my issue was my water was to soft. I now dose calcium 30ppm on water change and 10ppm of MG at change. This bumps my TDS to a start of 280-300. By the end of the week I'm generally 360-400. I also found that due to the lack of hardness my micro's were actually becoming toxic and crippling my plants. Even now after 2 months of everything thriving the rotala I hadn't replaced looked terrible and all new growth would start nice and then melt away to a stem. I threw it out yesterday and kept a few thriving side shoots.

I would highly recommend adding calcium and MG and lowing your micro dosage (if not stopping it completely for a few weeks) and see if u get better results.

I was going to ask you what your calcium levels and mg levels were at. Mine are no where near but my next venture was to up my calcium. This has convinced me. Didn't have time this morning gah!

Do you dose calcium chloride or sulphate? I read excess chloride can affect plants but sulphate is a PITA to dissolve.

 

[Bert2oo1]

I was going to ask you what your calcium levels and mg levels were at. Mine are no where near but my next venture was to up my calcium. This has convinced me. Didn't have time this morning gah!

Do you dose calcium chloride or sulphate? I read excess chloride can affect plants but sulphate is a PITA to dissolve.

I use chloride. I just put it into a 250ml bottle of warm water and shake it for about 30 seconds and leave it sitting while I do my water change. it's done by the time I've filled the tank

 

[DaleV87]

Yes this water is soft. I turned to RO water for a couple reasons.
I had read long ago that I would want to keep my TDS around 150 for best results but I am on well (rock water).
I have a softener on the system as well. I caught water from the tap prior to the softener and the GH was like 27 best I can remember so I decided to go to the RO water and use GH booster to elevate the TDS of each jug of water to 125-150 prior to water change.
But your description of what your plants are doing is spot on with this tank but mostly effects the AR in this one.
In my 90g I face very similar issues as well with considerably more of the melt.
Both tanks I use the RO water in.
The 90 I have reduced the CO2 in due to when the CO2 ppm hit at the recommended count of 35 ppm my PH dropped to like 6.4 which is pretty low. I melted a lot of my plants there.
Maybe I should take your recommendations and consider dropping micros to every other day and start doing 25/75 with tap (25rock) and 75 RO water change and see if the added GH will settle things out better in both tanks.
I was planning to add shrimp to the 20 long once I start my 40b and move my cardinals out of it.
Wouldn't the GH/KH and TDS be out of line for them at those levels? How would I balance the planted tank and have water quality for the shrimp as well?
I know this is a lot but I'm trying to ask while my mind is fresh or I'll forget....lol
Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[Caliban07]

I use chloride. I just put it into a 250ml bottle of warm water and shake it for about 30 seconds and leave it sitting while I do my water change. it's done by the time I've filled the tank

I'm at about 10ppm calcium to 5ppm mg. I've read a few times at least now to get calcium up to 30+ppm. I have both too so may do a mixture. Would be interesting to see what happens.