Saved goldfish :)

[Dwohlge1]

I think I got behind on this thread but i see a couple posts on making medicated food. Not sure if this is what your are looking for.


http://thegab.org/Illness-and-Treatment/an-easy-medicated-gel-food-recipe.html

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Thank you everyone!
I have peas, spinach, salmon, gelatin, fish food, and I think garlic. I'll try making a batch this afternoon and see how it goes. Wish me luck!

 

[joejeff]

Good luck.

 

[savage]

Good Luck!

 

[Mumma.of.two]

That would have to be the MOST feral smelling thing I've ever made. I can't handle canned fish at the best of times but mixed with garlic..... eew!

Half a can of salmon
3 heaped teaspoons of garlic
2 packs of gelatin (plain)
1 cup boiling water
1/2 cup cool water
1/8 cup frozen spinach
1/4 cup fish food 'crumble'
Dissolve gelatin in hot water then add cool water.
Put all ingredients into blender and blend together.
Poor into dish and put into fridge to (hopefully) set.

If all goes well I'll make another batch and add the antibiotics. Anyone have any thoughts on how much I should add? The capsules are 500mg each.

 

[blackmolly]

eew!!! glad i'm not in your kitchen lol... sounds like a good plan though!

 

[Mumma.of.two]

eew!!! glad i'm not in your kitchen lol... sounds like a good plan though!

Lol. Now my fridge stinks!
It's all set and I fed some to the Goldies. The moor (Francis) went nuts and basically inhaled his share. The other two weren't too sure to begin with but did eat some. I'd say a success.




Now to figure dosage. When I get a spare second (no kids climbing on me) I will do some numbers.

 

[jlk]

How much to meds to add is a tough one! I could not find a single piece of info on dosing ceph as a med food. You will need to start off by figuring out the amount of food in grams & based the dose off of either a cycline dose (250mgs meds per 100grams food) or the erthro dose (250mg per 75gr). So, i am making a guess here & i would start dosing at the lower amount first. Measure out 200grams of food & open & empty out the capsule (or do 100gram food & 1/2 capsule). This would give a dose of 2.5mgs meds per gram of food- feed 2x day for 10-14days. I would say if theres no improvement by day 7, to increase the meds by dosing 1 capsule per 150grams food (instead of 200g) & continue treatment for another 7 days. Hopefully, Dwohlge1 can provide some insight here as well because these are my best guesses for this dosing this med orally!!! On an additional note- this med can screw with your bb so stay on top of testing while using it! Hopefully, my dosing makes some sense!

 

[jlk]

Good job on the food!!!!

 

[Mumma.of.two]

How much to meds to add is a tough one! I could not find a single piece of info on dosing ceph as a med food. You will need to start off by figuring out the amount of food in grams & based the dose off of either a cycline dose (250mgs meds per 100grams food) or the erthro dose (250mg per 75gr). So, i am making a guess here & i would start dosing at the lower amount first. Measure out 200grams of food & open & empty out the capsule (or do 100gram food & 1/2 capsule). This would give a dose of 2.5mgs meds per gram of food- feed 2x day for 10-14days. I would say if theres no improvement by day 7, to increase the meds by dosing 1 capsule per 150grams food (instead of 200g) & continue treatment for another 7 days. Hopefully, Dwohlge1 can provide some insight here as well because these are my best guesses for this dosing this med orally!!! On an additional note- this med can screw with your bb so stay on top of testing while using it! Hopefully, my dosing makes some sense!

Thank you again!

 

[jsoong]

Unless the bottle is years old & kept in the sun/heat, it should still be safe to use. Expiration dates on antibiotics are negligible & really more to safeguard the manufactor & increase their their profits. It should be fine to use but, like i said, i am not sure how effective its going to be against this infection. We will work with what you have!

This is not strictly true ... Tetracyclines is rather toxic when expired (kills the liver). Never use any tetracycline past he expiry date (in people or pets!)

Penicillins & cephalosporins are safer, but expired drugs will lose potency. So you will tend to under dose and cause problem with antibiotic resistance.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

This is not strictly true ... Tetracyclines is rather toxic when expired (kills the liver). Never use any tetracycline past he expiry date (in people or pets!)

Penicillins & cephalosporins are safer, but expired drugs will lose potency. So you will tend to under dose and cause problem with antibiotic resistance.

So what are your recommendations? The cephelaxin I have isn't past its expiration date but has most likely been exposed to heat as much as 60*C.

 

[jsoong]

Anyone have any thoughts on how much I should add? The capsules are 500mg each.

I have read literature on vet school regarding antibiotics & fish, and they don't list any of the penicillins or cephalosporins. I guess these are not often used in fish.

In people, cephalexin is equipotent with erythromycin. <I have no info if this is true in fish!> So I would use the Erythromycin dosing if you want to try the cephalexin. that would be 500mg of drug per 150 g of food.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

I have read literature on vet school regarding antibiotics & fish, and they don't list any of the penicillins or cephalosporins. I guess these are not often used in fish.

In people, cephalexin is equipotent with erythromycin. <I have no info if this is true in fish!> So I would use the Erythromycin dosing if you want to try the cephalexin. that would be 500mg of drug per 150 g of food.

Thank you very much. And how much do u feed each time?

 

[jlk]

Thus my reasoning for starting at the lower dose initially & increasing it to the equivalent of an erthro dose if theres no improvement by day 7. There is very little info on using this med in fish (esp orally), so i would err on the side of caution & see how thiings go with a lower dose to start.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Thus my reasoning for starting at the lower dose initially & increasing it to the equivalent of an erthro dose if theres no improvement by day 7. There is very little info on using this med in fish (esp orally), so i would err on the side of caution & see how thiings go with a lower dose to start.

How many grams a day?

 

[jsoong]

That is the weakness of oral drug dosing in fish. the amount the fish eats is variable ... so the actual drug dosed is hit or miss.

The general recommendation of the fish community is to feed as much antibiotic food a fish will eat in one sitting, and call it one dose. This will take into account a bit of the fish's weight (bigger fish should eat more.)

Obviously, you can't dose anything with narrow therapeutic range doing that. However, Pens & Cepholosporins have wide therapeutic range. (We routinely dose 2-4x regular dose in severe infections with no ill effects.) <Again - caveats on this: This is people data .... I am extrapolating to fish, which may not be valid ....>

So what I am saying is don't stress the dose too much ... as the cepholexin has at least a 10 fold therapeutic range ... you just need to get into the ball park.

BTW - 1/2 life in people is only 6-8 hrs. Normally we use cepholexin 4x a day ... you might want to feed at least 3x daily.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

That is the weakness of oral drug dosing in fish. the amount the fish eats is variable ... so the actual drug dosed is hit or miss.

The general recommendation of the fish community is to feed as much antibiotic food a fish will eat in one sitting, and call it one dose. This will take into account a bit of the fish's weight (bigger fish should eat more.)

Obviously, you can't dose anything with narrow therapeutic range doing that. However, Pens & Cepholosporins have wide therapeutic range. (We routinely dose 2-4x regular dose in severe infections with no ill effects.) <Again - caveats on this: This is people data .... I am extrapolating to fish, which may not be valid ....>

So what I am saying is don't stress the dose too much ... as the cepholexin has at least a 10 fold therapeutic range ... you just need to get into the ball park.

BTW - 1/2 life in people is only 6-8 hrs. Normally we use cepholexin 4x a day ... you might want to feed at least 3x daily.

Thank you! Greatly appreciated. It is so hard to find any information on this sort of stuff.

 

[jsoong]

Thus my reasoning for starting at the lower dose initially & increasing it to the equivalent of an erthro dose if theres no improvement by day 7. There is very little info on using this med in fish (esp orally), so i would err on the side of caution & see how thiings go with a lower dose to start.

When dealing with antibiotics, this is not necessarily the best course of action ....

Antibiotics need to be used in an appropriate dose, for an appropriate amount of time. A low dose antibiotics will simply kill off sensitive organisms, leaving resistant bugs to wreck havoc later. Under dosing antibiotics (too low dose, or stopping too early - or in the farming industry, routinely mixing small amount of antibiotics in feed) is the main reason we are getting bacterial resistance (ie the "super bugs").

I do understand your cautious approach ... but I will have to disagree. <Esp. in view of the wide therapeutic range of the drug in question ... at least in people.>

 

[Mumma.of.two]

I've done some thinking and I'm going to start at the higher dosage. I'm not very happy with the fact that I have to use medication but at this point I don't see another option. I'm not sure if I've scared myself into this decision but I don't want to loose any of these guys after all the effort I've put into getting to them where they are now.