Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

[MissGurnus]

I just wanna see the ocean again? I cant shake this feeling that we should join forces and wholesale.... Hmmmm.... Florida, huh.

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That'd be a combination for the ages!


Sini's my personal bucket lugger.. I mean.. Husband..

 

[sinibotia]

I just wanna see the ocean again? I cant shake this feeling that we should join forces and wholesale.... Hmmmm.... Florida, huh.

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If you two are joining up to do wholesale I would just have to come down there for that internship sooner than planned....

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[skylane]

That would be awesome!!!
I love the thought my man.[emoji39]
An ocean view...[emoji41]

Clem

 

[PoppaRyno]

Im just too poor to start the process.... Arghhhhh

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[skylane]

I guess we can only build on what we have, I know I can do better, but I'm content with what I have , but I like most of here have fish dreams too!!! [emoji225]

Clem

 

[sinibotia]

Im just too poor to start the process.... Arghhhhh

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Hitchhike!

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[PoppaRyno]

I cant get much more without more space. I do all this in a 3bed townhome.... Lol. If i could pay to transfer and join forces w/ andy.... Oh I would.

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[Andy Sager]

Man that sounds good!!![emoji106]
You've lived there long now Andy, its like you are now native there?
Opposite for me, born in the Caribbean and grew up in Canada. I can tolerate the cold for a bit, but prefer warmer climate as I age.
Well that's in the bucket list for me , a warmer place to live for sure!!!

Clem

I'm the opposite. I was born in the cold North ( New Jersey) and I've lived somewhere in FL since 1974 so I am almost considered a native ( depending on where in FL you ask ) and spent most of my late teens and 20s traveling around the Caribbean and Central America. All in the name of fish. Now, when I go to a colder climate, even for just a visit, I can't wait to get back to my acre in the woods and into my shorts and tee shirts. It's the life for sure. You should try it.

I just wanna see the ocean again? I cant shake this feeling that we should join forces and wholesale.... Hmmmm.... Florida, huh.

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I'm ready when you are but I think you need to be looking at the Gulf more than the ocean. That side has more fish farm cred than the ocean side does. ( Besides, the water is cleaner there too. )

If you two are joining up to do wholesale I would just have to come down there for that internship sooner than planned....

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Well hurry up then. I'm not getting any younger ya know!!!

That would be awesome!!!
I love the thought my man.[emoji39]
An ocean view...[emoji41]

Clem

See above, I prefer the Gulf of Mexico. The ocean side is too dark and dirty for me. Once I saw the blue waters of the Caribbean, I got spoiled so any water that is dark ( even in my home town of NJ fyi) just looks dirty to me and not swimable. But we can talk.

 

[sinibotia]

Well hurry up then. I'm not getting any younger ya know!!!

Gotta wait on poppa to get it together and I'll be right down

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[Andy Sager]

Well, sadly, it looks like one of the spawns is going to be another fry dud. As the day has been going along, the fry have been just dying off. I see some trying to swim but just go in circles or skirts the tank bottom then settles. The other spawn that I thought was supposed to swim today actually won't be a week old until Wed so it's 2 more days of waiting What's interesting is that this failed spawn is from the fish I have been feeding just the food my friend gave me. Maybe not long enough to have fixed the problem OR the problem is not the food? All the signs point to it being dietary as the fry tanks have been bleached or peroxided or sterilized in one way or another so the problem has to be coming from the fish not the environment. It's very frustrating, to say the least, but thankfully, I have the other fish now to play with to take my mind off this for a while.

 

[PoppaRyno]

Is it at all possible its genetics thats causing fry issues?

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[coralbandit]

All the signs point to it being dietary as the fry tanks have been bleached or peroxided or sterilized in one way or another so the problem has to be coming from the fish not the environment. It's very frustrating, to say the least, but thankfully, I have the other fish now to play with to take my mind off this for a while.

Do you always 'sterilize' fry tanks when changing spawns?

Also did you do this when you did not have issues?

 

[Andy Sager]

Is it at all possible its genetics thats causing fry issues?

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Unless the genetics of the established fish have changed, then no. It's happening with new pairs and old proven pairs. The next spawn is from the old 1/2 Black pair that had a successful spawn since July but after a 6 month rest so I have my doubts now how they will do. That last spawn, btw, is a live and well and living in the vat under the light test. (No changers yet. )

I did take out the magnifying glass tonight and noticed that the spawn that died today still has some live fry and it looks like even after 7 days, the fry haven't fully absorbed their yolk sacs. That plays right into the conversation I read about, that the preservative helps enable the fry to better absorb the yolk. So this may mean that it just hasn't been long enough for the new (old) diet to kick in yet. I just don't know. My buddy made the comment in passing a while back that "a month may not even be long enough to fix this." I was hoping he wasn't right. The post mentioned 2 weeks feeding TetraMin but this Omega One has more of the ingredient in it than TetraMin so I assumed it would only be that long as well. Considering that this seemed to be a common theme between all the pairs, it sure looks like it's a dietary thing and nothing else. I mean, what are the odds that something would effect all the fry, in any water type, in different hatching containers, on the same time frame, using different things for sterilization of both or either tank or eggs and it not come from all the parents? I was even thinking that maybe I have a "bug" effecting all the parents but then how did it get into the other tanks with the growout fry that are now breeding and not kill any of the parents? So my next thing, I think, is to try raising the temp so that absorption should be quick and see if that changes anything. I haven't needed to go above 78 degrees for all the fry I did raise here but desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[PoppaRyno]

Have you tried, with a pair or two, just high protien live foods... Maybe a flake sprinkle here n there.

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[Andy Sager]

Do you always 'sterilize' fry tanks when changing spawns?

Also did you do this when you did not have issues?

I am actually doing more complete sterilizing since this started happening than I was doing before when I was having great results. And that's why I am 99.9% positive now that it has more to do with the parents than the fry. As I said in the above post, there has been a successful spawn during all this time and it was from a pair that hadn't spawned in 6 months but the spawns since then have all died in similar fashion. If I hadn't had that success, I would be looking at the water more for metals or the temp or water parameters. That one spawn ruled out all these other things as it was just water from the well. Nothing special but a day of bubbling before I used it which is no different than what I am doing now or doing before. Keep in mind that the 2 other recent spawns had some swimmers but I lost them a couple days in when they weren't eating the BBS. But these were from either non proven pairs or a first time spawner with an established/ proven mate. So I can't say that their lack of numbers of fry was more that than what's happening with the other fish. It's just a real brain twister for sure.

 

[Andy Sager]

Have you tried, with a pair or two, just high protien live foods... Maybe a flake sprinkle here n there.

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Unfortunately, I don't have regular access to live foods for the adults so I have switched to the original foods I was feeding, when things were hopping , and isolated 2 pairs of fish, both from my friend, that are now being fed only the foods that he feeds his fish. Both of these have the Ethoxyquin preservative. Unfortunately, the spawn that died today was from one of these pairs. The 1/2 Blacks are on the Omega One. I was unable to get FD Tubifex in bulk from Omega Sea and tried some from another company. The fish were eating them but I started getting bloat issues even with feeding them frozen Brine Shrimp so I discontinued feeding the worms. Might need to switch to a worm flake to replace the FD worms.
On a side note, I spoke with a rep from Cobalt foods and explained what happened and compared the results I got and my friend got ( the rep was at my buddy's store) and he said he would discuss this with the owner. He agreed that some fish just don't get used to that vitaminized blue flake which was what we both were finding. I haven't heard back yet from him as to what the owner said. We both agreed, it's just all weird.

 

[Gillie]

Not to sidetrack your thread or anything, but any idea what type of angel this is?

 

[Andy Sager]

Not to sidetrack your thread or anything, but any idea what type of angel this is?

The easy answer would be to say it's a Silver however, the spots in it make it more than JUST a silver. Some wild Angels have spots like that however, crossbred silvers and zebras can also have spots like those. So I can't really give you more of an exact answer of which type it is unless I know for sure it's wild or domestic. If it's wild, you might want to look into the AMAZONAS magazine from 2012 or 13? for the article of all the new found Angels from different areas of S. America. I am not as familiar with these new found varieties.

Hope this helps

 

[PoppaRyno]

If its wild my guess would be a manacapuru red. But thats just a lil better than a wild guess. Yesss... Amazonas article is fantastic.

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[Gillie]

All I know is F3 from wild stock, I'll have to check amazonas out for sure though.