Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

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Have you tried using purigen to remove the ammonia until you get the problem solved?
If you cycle the sponges in a bin and use those in the fry tanks thag should remthe ammonia too right?

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As for working with your fish... I would be proud to. But thats just in an there's absolutely no way YOU could figure out your issue scenario. Carrying on your work would be my duty. But it would be temporary. Temporary until you got your issue resolved. I just cant imagine you without your angels. But yes Andy, I'll help you in any way I can. Your a wonderful mentor & friend.

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Im sure youve checked these. But...

1. Ground seepage ammonia from outside coming into the AC intake.

2. Outside painting & painting exhaust making its way into the AC intake.

3. Ive discussed this with a friend. Is it at all possible a wild or neighbors critter has urinated on the AC unit. He experienced similarities to your issue and found something had been urinating on his AC.

4. Windows? Check the sealant used.

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Got you a little nervous there, eh Poppa? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
I have a place for the fish should it come down to it but I do appreciate the backup. ;)

Addressing the numbers:
#1- The water from the flow through system does empty into a thicket of trees and bushes behind the place and it is over 10' away from the A/C unit which is installed in the upper half of the wall so I doubt, with all that natural filtration, that that is the cause but I can try to extend the outflow tube. As for my septic tank, that's on the opposite side of the house so doubtful anything is coming from there.

#2- Outside painting and exhaust is no where near the building so not the problem. Besides, they weren't being done when this started.

#3- I do have squirrels running around but anything larger ( Raccoon or Opossum) would not really be an issue as they have never been seen in the thicket trees ( the trees are too spindly to support their weight) and there is a beautiful undisturbed Pine Forest so close that I can't imagine they would choose my thicket over that forest. :whistle: As for other ground animals, none close enough to be a problem. I can't even pee that high to hit the unit so I doubt that they could. :ROFLMAO:

#4- Before installing the A/C, the fish were breeding and I wasn't having fry issues so the window's shouldn't be the cause.

I just ordered the new test kit so I need to wait about 5-7 days to get it. Until then, just more of the same I'm afraid. :(

I hope your son feels better soon. It sucks to be sick this time of year I'm sure. But look at it this way, at least you will know that he's not getting into trouble New Year's eve. :brows::lol:

Thanks for the tips. (y)
 
Thanks for the replies. I already did these tests and even with air coming from outside, there was still traces of ammonia showing up in the water, just not as much. So it's in the building. The exchange of gases through the bubbles gets it into the water. Even standing water showed a slight amount of ammonia when it was tested 24 hours later. It started out with 0 ammonia. After the 24 hours and adding an airstone, the ammonia level increased. That has to confirm it's in the building. The A/C- Heater does keep the place at 78 as set so I have to assume it's working properly or it would be hotter or colder in here even with the insulation. The darn air quality test would have answered that question visually but as I posted earlier, the test was expired and I heard from the seller that they have no others ATM so I am looking into getting another from another source. The results from that would/ should tell me if there is stagnant air in the area of the compressor, tanks or rows however, I have now tested water in both rows with similar results so I doubt the problem is "stagnant" air as much as it's something coming from the unit within the cooled air. I need to test the air quality with just the heater running and just the a/c running but the heater wasn't running nor had been ever run at the beginning of this whole thing so I am 99.99999% positive that if the unit is to blame, it's from the a/c part. I don't want to call the company about it until I get confirmation that the problem is in fact the unit. (I like to go into battle with all my facts first. :brows:;) )

As for using charcoal filters, I looked into them and not convinced they would help but for the size of the building, the cost of an air purifier system is too much so the fish need to either adjust or go somewhere else..... ( Poppa? :brows::ROFLMAO: ) Continually having to change or clean charcoal filters is not in my future either so unless they are affordable and last a while, they are not going to happen. :nono:

As for "....you paint your own cranks or are you making plastics?", neither. I make jigs but this all started before I was doing any of them in the building so they are not the problem. I do use powder paint but that is exhausted out a window behind the painting area ( which is also the other side of the building from the compressor intake) and the liquid paints I use are water based. Any other types of painting is done outside the building as always. So I can rule out anything on the lure side as the problem 99.99%. The only thing on that side that could be an issue is the new work bench I built using pressure treated lumber. But there is not a lot of it within the bench so I sincerely doubt that is the cause. The rest of the wood is white wood. Air quality test would confirm my hunch. :whistle:

So for now, I wait........... :(:facepalm::banghead:
Sorry Andy, I was meaning the filter was to be used as a temporary fix, until you have the problem solved, or even a reduction in the building not a permanent solution.[emoji12]


Clem
 
I was going to suggest stray cats. Male cat urine is powerful stuff.

I'm very interested to see how this pans out. Really wondering where the source is. Do you have any particle board? I know it leaches formaldehyde but not sure about ammonia.

Brenna
No stray cats here. The Alligators or Bobcats or Panthers keep it that way. ;)
The base of the unit sits 6 1/2 feet off the ground so ground animals aren't an issue.
As for particle board, don't have any. I did use a thin plywood from Home Depot ( probably from China) to seal up the walls but again, 6 months of no issues with that up so I doubt that's the issue either.

Have you tried using purigen to remove the ammonia until you get the problem solved?
If you cycle the sponges in a bin and use those in the fry tanks thag should remthe ammonia too right?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Aquarium Advice mobile app
The use of cycled sponge filters does not allow for me to use anti fungals on the eggs and when I tried that, the hatch rate went way down and the fry still didn't survive. The reason is that the nitrate level gets too high too fast for the fry so they are best hatched in unfiltered water then added to water that is filtered with a sponge filter. The long version of the process is that when you first put a sponge filter in with the fry, it should have nothing to live off of due to the fry secreting very little waste. When I hatch them out in just water then put a filter on them when they start free swimming, the excess food is the first real food source for the nitrifying bacteria and since from there you are doing daily water changes, that prevents the nitrates from building up. In this case, I cannot create clean water to hatch the fry in because as soon as the water is bubbled, it sucks the ammonia into it. It's a bad catch -22. The proof of this was the rain water. If it happened in there, then I know it's from an outside source.
I have used an ammonia remover ( zeolite) in the jars with the eggs but the ammonia came back after just 2 days of it in with room air. If overusing the zeolite can't keep the ammonia out, then there is a problem and guess what, I have a problem. ;) :blink: :facepalm::banghead: :lol:
 
So here's a little update:
I'm still waiting for the new air quality kit to come. Should be here in the next few days. I've been experimenting with spawns in and out of the building and the results still have not been good. Apparently, the dye is cast at spawning so without having fish outside of the building to compare, I can only assume that is the case. I will be moving a couple of pairs back to the porch once winter is over so I can see how they do.

The guppy fry I've been growing are still doing great. The males are taking longer to develop their Gonopodiums and I almost missed pulling one due to this. Thankfully, I don't think any of the females in the tank are pregnant yet. I want to start with fully virgin females for this line. Fingers crossed. :blink:

I have not been feeling overly excited with the 1/2 black fry in the vat as they seem to not be growing very large or very quick. I've been pulling 1 or 2 dead babies every few days but these are the runts so no biggie in my book. I've been noticing some of the larger ones the past couple of weeks looking like they may turn but that haven't yet. Today, I saw 2 that have. I'm going to leave them in to see if they inspire others to turn as well.

The male Pleco released the fry from the back corner the other day. So cute... little buggers all over the tank. :D I still count at least 35 new ones. So at least I know that if the Angels fail, I can still do Plecos and Guppies. (y)

I set up the albino cories again but this time, the female only had released about 6 eggs. I thought she would have done more but, no. I left 2 in the tank and 4 I removed to the house to see if I could get them to hatch and free swim. Unfortunately, all the eggs died in both locations. :(

So that's it for now.......:whistle:
 
Andy I don't know if this would be cost effective for you, but have you looked int a swamp cooler for your hatchery? I know they use them up in the high desert around 29 Palms California. Just a thought.

I tried to pull the divider out today in my breeding tank and I thought all' gonna be good. Until I came back into the room 2 minutes later. The male had the female by the mouth or lips and was pulling her all around the tank. When it first started I thought they were kissing, but when he took off accross the tank, I grabbed the divider and separated them and put it back in. I'm thinking I may have to see if she'll mate with my Black Marble. What do you think I should do? I'm afraid to even let the male back in the community tank!


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Andy I don't know if this would be cost effective for you, but have you looked int a swamp cooler for your hatchery? I know they use them up in the high desert around 29 Palms California. Just a thought.



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A swamp cooler relies on evaporation to cool. That probably won't work too well with the high humidity in Florida.
 
Okay, it just popped into my head and thought I'd ask. Thanks for filling me in?


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The news is in.....

The news is in and it's both good and bad.
The test kit came in and I have physical proof that the A/C unit is producing 5 ppm of ammonia into the air. I spoke with the A/C company and they said "That's not right, it shouldn't be doing that." I also found out that my 1 year warranty for the thing was up about the same time I started having the issue so unless I had purchased the extended warranty, I would have to pay for the service call. Since I couldn't find the paperwork of exactly when I bought the thing or if I purchased an extended warranty, I had to spend another 30 minutes looking and making phone calls and it turns out, I bought the extended warranty so it's all good as for the paying part ( hopefully.:whistle:) Now, I get someone to come to the building and check it out on Thurs. so I will know more when that's all done.
That said, the spawn I took into the house did not survive either. I'm hoping it's because the water just wasn't clean enough because I took a water sample and it was all out of whack. High ammonia, nitrites and some nitrates. No wonder those poor fry didn't survive. :facepalm: So now I am hoping that once the a/c issue is resolved that no real permanent damage has been done to the breeders and life can get back on track. I won't know this for sure until I test spawns in good water from start to finish. Right now, I haven't trusted any water so I hadn't been doing any water changes in with the fry or eggs and we see how that turned out. :(:banghead: So the thought process needs to change once again as to what I do breed in here. :blink:
 
ac problems

im so glad you got an answer now for the real test hoping and praying you get a good answer ill be praying just as I have been all along andy
 
I too am glad you seem to finding the source of issues...
I wonder though why the ammonia only effects the angel fish tanks????
 
Yeah!!! We finally have a smoking gun. I'm sure you will be so relieved when you finally start seeing good results come from your tanks again.
 
Good news Andy!!![emoji38]
I'm not giving up on the Angels so easy[emoji12]

Clem
 
I too am glad you seem to finding the source of issues...
I wonder though why the ammonia only effects the angel fish tanks????
Actually, it didn't. It effected the cory cats too. But here's why only the egg tanks: the other tanks all have sponge filters in them so the ammonia is being converted biologically before it accumulates and effects the fry in the tanks. With the eggs, Cory and Angels, these do not have biological filters in them so that I can use antifungals on the eggs which in turn lets the ammonia build up from the exchange of gases and THAT's why it appears to only effect the Angels. I also lost about 40-50 cory fry that hatched and the day they were supposed to start free swimming, they pooped out too. When I tried to do the eggs without any antifungals, more died before hatching and when I tried to do the eggs with no meds but with sponge filters from the start, the nitrate levels rose too quickly and apparently the fry died from that. ( I was using 2 gal tanks for hatching and with an established sponge filter in that size tank, it was just too much. ) My original way uses clean water ( which I couldn't get under the current conditions) and any ammonia buildup wouldn't happen until the fry had become free swimming and at that point, daily water changes would have been being done so there was dilution from the start and once the fry were free swimming, I also added a sponge filter so between that and the daily water changes, ammonia buildup and subsequent nitrite/nitrate issues wouldn't happen. But with this condition, there was never the ability to have clean, aerated, same temp fresh water for the fry so they were sunk from the start. :( The cory fry kinda made that clear as I hadn't been able to hatch any Cory egg before I used peroxide but when I did, I got a huge hatch. Problem was, I also had a sponge filter in the tank as well but the peroxide sterilized that as well so it was like I had no filtration and whammo, no fry either. :(

Hope this explains it. (y)

Yeah!!! We finally have a smoking gun. I'm sure you will be so relieved when you finally start seeing good results come from your tanks again.

Yes I will however, until I know what the source is, I also won't know if there are any long term breeding effects to the fish. Some of my pairs are old enough now that they may not be breeding as frequently and that means it's time for them to go. :whistle: :(

Good news Andy!!![emoji38]
I'm not giving up on the Angels so easy[emoji12]

Clem
Never give up. They are a wonderful fish to breed. If enough people try to correct what's wrong with today's Angels, it will make my job a lot easier. ;) (y)
 
"True Dat" Andy!!!
Never give up.
I love these fish, very different looking to begin with, to me they are unique in many ways!
I was watching some YouTube on guess what? Florida fish farming.
I was amazed how they do business and I saw the many ponds and varieties they kept and bred, and they also ship for the local breeders. Florida is truly fish heaven!!![emoji106]


Clem
 
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