Wigglers At Last!!!!!

[Mr Fisher]

OK so it's been 4 or so days since I put that one angel back with the other. They chased and fought for about a day and a half. They now are chasing "nickel" away from the slate and have been taking turns pecking on it all morning.

*Crossing fingers*

Angelfish Spawn Preperation - YouTube

Gonna pick up some craft mesh and throw together a tank divider so "nickel" won't be bothering them.

 

[Fishdude3233]

Nice. Hopefully you'll get some eggs soon!

 

[Mr Fisher]

Nice. Hopefully you'll get some eggs soon!

Hoping so. I've got slates on both ends of that tank and they are cleaning the other one now.

 

[Andy Sager]

OK so it's been 4 or so days since I put that one angel back with the other. They chased and fought for about a day and a half. They now are chasing "nickel" away from the slate and have been taking turns pecking on it all morning.

*Crossing fingers*

Angelfish Spawn Preperation - YouTube

Gonna pick up some craft mesh and throw together a tank divider so "nickel" won't be bothering them.

Food for thought:
I know it's a bit more expensive but the pre made dividers by Penn Plax might be a better divider than the mesh since they are opaque. In order for the fish to concentrate on spawning and not defending, they really shouldn't even see another fish in the tank. I get annoyed with them and myself when I go to check on a spawn and one or both of the breeders leaves the slate to come to me. I'm just trying to gauge removal times, not disturb them. I can't seem to achieve this (Thankfully, the end results have been tremendous!!!) If they constantly see Nickle, you might not have such a good hatch percentage?

Just something to think about

 

[Andy Sager]

Desperate times called for desperate measures.
I only had a quart sized bottle so I had to use it. The spawn was too big to sacrifice. So I drained 1/2 gal out of the 2.5 on the crying table and put the bottle on top of the tank. Will have to keep the house warm tonight as I won't be going for a heater for it until tomorrow. (Thank you warm front in FL )
Here's what my hatchery now looks like. LOL The bottle behind the one with the blue is just turning green from the window. No choice on that one. LOL
Babies, babies...everywhere babies

BTW: Those Bettas in the bowls have been with me since before I got back into Angelfish. Who says you shouldn't keep Bettas in a bowl or they won't do well in a bowl? They do, when you know what you are doing

 

[Andy Sager]

These new little guys go absolutely nuts over DAC.

What's not to like in a DAC????

 

[Mr Fisher]

Food for thought:
I know it's a bit more expensive but the pre made dividers by Penn Plax might be a better divider than the mesh since they are opaque. In order for the fish to concentrate on spawning and not defending, they really shouldn't even see another fish in the tank. I get annoyed with them and myself when I go to check on a spawn and one or both of the breeders leaves the slate to come to me. I'm just trying to gauge removal times, not disturb them. I can't seem to achieve this (Thankfully, the end results have been tremendous!!!) If they constantly see Nickle, you might not have such a good hatch percentage?

Just something to think about

Thanks for the tip!

Looking at pen plax and a full sponge one atm. Hopefully fishies will be good till I get paid thursday

 

[Kelly5978]

I'm sorry if I'm just "jumping in", but I know this is THE BEST place to get advice about angelfish breeding! So, here goes: I've taken Andy's advice, and now have a batch of free swimming that need to be moved to my 5.5g "baby tank". The 3 babies currently in the 5.5g are almost dime sized, and ready to be moved to the grow out tank. Here is the real dilemma: the 5.5g is filled with buffered water that keeps the ph at 6. (Putting my eggs in very acidic water seems to be the only way to keep them alive). The ammonia sometimes hits 1, but my babies never flinch, because it's just ammonium to them. So....how do I acclimate them to a higher ph, so they can rehome in the grow out? I've had MANY eggs, wigglers and free swimmers. But these 3 have been my first real success. I really don't want to mess up now! I thought about just getting another tank for the new batch of free swimmers, but I don't know how to raise the ph in the 5.5g without the ammonia hurting the babies! How can you speed up the growth of beneficial bacteria? There must not be ANY in the 5.5g, because the ammonia gets higher....but never converts to nitrites! Can anyone help me figure this out?

 

[Andy Sager]

I'm sorry if I'm just "jumping in", but I know this is THE BEST place to get advice about angelfish breeding! So, here goes: I've taken Andy's advice, and now have a batch of free swimming that need to be moved to my 5.5g "baby tank". The 3 babies currently in the 5.5g are almost dime sized, and ready to be moved to the grow out tank. Here is the real dilemma: the 5.5g is filled with buffered water that keeps the ph at 6. (Putting my eggs in very acidic water seems to be the only way to keep them alive). The ammonia sometimes hits 1, but my babies never flinch, because it's just ammonium to them. So....how do I acclimate them to a higher ph, so they can rehome in the grow out? I've had MANY eggs, wigglers and free swimmers. But these 3 have been my first real success. I really don't want to mess up now! I thought about just getting another tank for the new batch of free swimmers, but I don't know how to raise the ph in the 5.5g without the ammonia hurting the babies! How can you speed up the growth of beneficial bacteria? There must not be ANY in the 5.5g, because the ammonia gets higher....but never converts to nitrites! Can anyone help me figure this out?

Hi Kelly. I was wondering what happened with you
The way you change PH on fish is......... SLOWLY!!!!!!! You have 2 choices: Either make new water that matches the PH, KH ,GH of what they are in and move the 3 fish to that water then slowly change it or do daily small water changes in the tank they are in so that the PH starts to rise.
What is happening is that there is either no nitrifying bacteria present or they are dormant (it's up for debate) at that lower PH. So the problem becomes when you start to raise the PH in a tank that has ammonium (NH4) present, once you reach that high 6.? or 7.0+ PH range, you have made that ammonium now toxic ammonia and only water changes and a working filter from a cycled tank that is above 7.0 in PH can help.
So in scenrio #1 above, by making water that has no ammonia but the lower PH, you then can slowly change the PH through frequent small water changes until the PH is high enough for the fish to go into the new tank with a working biological filter. It is recommended to not change the PH more than .2 in a 10-12 hour period so you will be doing this over a period of days not hours.

In scenario #2- you will also be doing smaller water changes daily but you will need to pay close attention to the pH and ammonia levels. Once you get to the higher 6s, I would recommend using something like PRIME or a similar product to detoxify the ammonia without lowering the PH. Again, a working biological filter once you get above 7.0 PH.

Hope this solves the mystery

 

[oscarchic11]

I use the craft mesh to divide my 55 and the pair actually can't really see the fish on the other side unless they get really close. Craft mesh is white, with small holes. I had considered getting a more permanent divider but they are completely clear, the ones available up here are at least.

Sent from my NX008HD8G using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Andy Sager]

I use the craft mesh to divide my 55 and the pair actually can't really see the fish on the other side unless they get really close. Craft mesh is white, with small holes. I had considered getting a more permanent divider but they are completely clear, the ones available up here are at least.

Sent from my NX008HD8G using Aquarium Advice mobile app

The Penn Plax ones I got here look clear(ish) out of water but are opaque in the water. At best, you can see shadows but no real definition of what's on the other side. I have a tank with an adult Angel on one side and Guppies on the other. The Angel doesn't even look at the divider. The other day however, I added some water to the tank and by morning, a Guppy had jumped over the divider because I didn't have my makeshift cover on right and was found inside the Angel's mouth. Amazing, considering it never is watching them through the divider

 

[Mr Fisher]

I moved nickle to the 29 with andy. Still gonna pick up a divder for the 55 but this mov buys me more time to do so.

The pair are still pecking at slates and hanging together. I meant to say this before but they started all of it after I did a 15 galon water change.

 

[Andy Sager]

I moved nickle to the 29 with andy. Still gonna pick up a divder for the 55 but this mov buys me more time to do so.

The pair are still pecking at slates and hanging together. I meant to say this before but they started all of it after I did a 15 galon water change.

You mean another pair of fish has reacted exactly how they should after a partial water change? Absolutely AMAZING!!!!!!!! Next thing you know, you'll be seeing tubes coming out of your fish and we all know what that means

 

[Mr Fisher]

You mean another pair of fish has reacted exactly how they should after a partial water change? Absolutely AMAZING!!!!!!!! Next thing you know, you'll be seeing tubes coming out of your fish and we all know what that means

Your talking about the king of bad luck's fish here. With my track record I'm liable to wake up to one or both floating at the top in the morning

Also the combomba I threw in there to give them more privacy has like a 1/4" new growth.

I have no issues with growing plants

 

[Andy Sager]

Your talking about the king of bad luck's fish here. With my track record I'm liable to wake up to one or both floating at the top in the morning

Also the combomba I threw in there to give them more privacy has like a 1/4" new growth.

I have no issues with growing plants

You are only the KING if you accept the crown. Don't do that!!!

 

[Mr Fisher]

You are only the KING if you accept the crown. Don't do that!!!

You've got a darn good point!

I'm keeping at it.

Poor litle nickle was not happy about being moved, lol Looked like a child being put in his room.

 

[pcdebb]

I see things are still going strong over here

 

[Kelly5978]

Just wanted to shout a quick thx to Andy! Makes perfect sense! It's what I figured was happening, but I wanted to be sure. So, I can slowly raise ph in their tank, using prime with the higher ph water (less than .2 higher ph each change), and then move them to a tank of the higher ph with established bacteria. Right? Do I need to do daily water changes then? (Prime only neutralizes for 24 hrs if I remember correctly)? Also, if I chose to just keep them in the water ph they've been raised in, I never have to change anything???? I mean, water changes of course, but weekly water changes with buffered water at 6 ph or less will keep them good through adulthood? And, do I just rinse the sponge filter with every 3rd water change....as it's really just a cleaner (with no BBB)? Heck, sounds too easy ?!
Not one death during the move. Only 3 babies survived, but I really think that would have happened anyways. All adults are back to spawning, and black/gold pair get their own tank this week! I have lots of eggs in m.blue as we speak, but the hatch rate went way down since the move. Stress? (They all fought for territories again, and beat each other up something ugly)! Last thing....I noticed a discussion about giving fish too MANY vitamins! I soak the breeders pellets in vita-chem every other day when they're about to spawn....should I stop this? I also give them more frozen BS and daphnia....just wondered! Thx again!

 

[Andy Sager]

Just wanted to shout a quick thx to Andy! Makes perfect sense! It's what I figured was happening, but I wanted to be sure. So, I can slowly raise ph in their tank, using prime with the higher ph water (less than .2 higher ph each change), and then move them to a tank of the higher ph with established bacteria. Right? Do I need to do daily water changes then? (Prime only neutralizes for 24 hrs if I remember correctly)? Also, if I chose to just keep them in the water ph they've been raised in, I never have to change anything???? I mean, water changes of course, but weekly water changes with buffered water at 6 ph or less will keep them good through adulthood? And, do I just rinse the sponge filter with every 3rd water change....as it's really just a cleaner (with no BBB)? Heck, sounds too easy ?!
Not one death during the move. Only 3 babies survived, but I really think that would have happened anyways. All adults are back to spawning, and black/gold pair get their own tank this week! I have lots of eggs in m.blue as we speak, but the hatch rate went way down since the move. Stress? (They all fought for territories again, and beat each other up something ugly)! Last thing....I noticed a discussion about giving fish too MANY vitamins! I soak the breeders pellets in vita-chem every other day when they're about to spawn....should I stop this? I also give them more frozen BS and daphnia....just wondered! Thx again!

Better to ask and be safe than sorry
If you go the route of raising the PH, I would suggest you set up another tank with water with a PH of just over 7.0 so it can house a biological filter. When the fishwater you are adjusting reaches that 7.0 level, I'd transfer the babies into that clean water. Since there is biological action going on there, there is no need to do daily water changes. What I would do is use a higher PH water as your refill water for after a water change. Make the PH difference slight so that the fish can adjust to it gradually. ( I'm currently raising the PH in 3 tanks, a 30 gal, 20 gal and 15 gal, 1 gallon at a time in the big tanks and 1/2 gal on the 15. I use a drip hose with a valve to keep the water flowing in very slow. That's for the PH and due to temp. No ill effects so far.)
Cleaning the sponge is okay just don;t be too rough on it as it will deteriorate faster the more water you wash through it.
The pairs being together in a tank is probably why the reduction in hatch rate. If the male misses his chance to fertilize because he was chasing away the other fish, those will be dead eggs. You may even see a pattern of lines of dead eggs instead of 1 here and there being dead. That's a dead give away for missed opportunity ( No pun intended )
Yes, you could keep the fish at that lower PH so your tanks will not cycle. In some fish, a PH of 6.0 or lower is mandatory ( Wild Altum Angels for example) for survival. Something to consider tho, If you plan on selling off your excess fish ( and hopefully you will one day have extra fish ), most likely the places they will be going to will not have water with a low PH like your tanks. This will most likely lead to some dead fish and complaints. It is better (IMO) to get them into higher PH water during their growth cycle than to wait until they are older. The more time you take to do this, the less loss you should suffer.

Vitamins, I use them to reduce stress when fish first get moved or show signs of stress. I don't use them all the time. I'd follow the directions on the bottle for the proper dosing amounts and frequency.

 

[Andy Sager]

I had a strange experience today. The eggs in the blue water ( next to the Betta Bowls) hatched today. Normally, when I see them hatch, the fry look like they are tail down and head up as you would expect from their position. Due to where on the slate the fish spawn, I usually have to turn the slates upside down so that the eggs are all covered in water. I assume that makes the embryos rotate in the shell so that they are in this "normal" position at hatching. In today's hatch, it looks like the fry are positioned tail up and head down as if they never turned. And it's most of the fry that look this way ( and there are a lot of fry.) Weird, huh?
I have more eggs hopefully hatching tomorrow so I will check them again and keep ya posted. Maybe it had something to do with the full moon? ????? (shoulder shrug)