Wigglers At Last!!!!!

[bob mccoy]

awesome ill keep u updated with the 1/2 black andy

 

[Bdonaldson]

My Pearlscale pair spawned two days ago and the eggs are still on the slate. ? I can see a few white ones on there so maybe this is a sign that they will let them become wigglers and maybe they will even get to adult size. I guess I will find out soon enough. I didn't post the day they spawned because every time I do they eat the eggs the next day. So I figured I would wait a couple of days to see would happen. ?

 

[Andy Sager]

Flooding around us but our house stayed dry! Still many roads closed and traffic is a pia. Some people lost everything, a friend of my daughters at work lost everything. Her boss just bought her a laptop (she is a parent and recently went back to college, again) and people have been bringing her groceries, and things she might need. So some things here make you want to cry, but for happiness now!

Thank you Andy,

and Bob.

Well I'm sure I speak for all of us here when I say : Sorry to hear about the situation there but glad to hear you are okay

 

[Andy Sager]

My Pearlscale pair spawned two days ago and the eggs are still on the slate. ? I can see a few white ones on there so maybe this is a sign that they will let them become wigglers and maybe they will even get to adult size. I guess I will find out soon enough. I didn't post the day they spawned because every time I do they eat the eggs the next day. So I figured I would wait a couple of days to see would happen. ?

I know how you feel. It's hard to keep writing that "my most recent spawn has turned white, yet again " as has happened with the trio spawn (even tho it was expected.) On a brighter note, the female Marble, that I thought I was going to lose, today brought out her tube and is filling out nicely so spawn #2 ( another expected dud) should be just days away. WHOOOOPIEEEE

 

[Bdonaldson]

I know how you feel. It's hard to keep writing that "my most recent spawn has turned white, yet again " as has happened with the trio spawn (even tho it was expected.) On a brighter note, the female Marble, that I thought I was going to lose, today brought out her tube and is filling out nicely so spawn #2 ( another expected dud) should be just days away. WHOOOOPIEEEE

Well sorry to hear that Andy. I know exactly how you feel. I just walked by my breeder tank with the pearlscales and she was kicking his a$$ and I looked over at the slate and almost all of the eggs had turned white. She was making him pay for not doing his part. It was kinda funny because she had him trapped in the corner and she was going to town on him. I could just imagine in my head what she was saying to him. Lol Oh well maybe the next spawn he will do his part better.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well sorry to hear that Andy. I know exactly how you feel. I just walked by my breeder tank with the pearlscales and she was kicking his a$$ and I looked over at the slate and almost all of the eggs had turned white. She was making him pay for not doing his part. It was kinda funny because she had him trapped in the corner and she was going to town on him. I could just imagine in my head what she was saying to him. Lol Oh well maybe the next spawn he will do his part better.

I know that sometimes the partners take revenge for unsuccessful spawning results but it's not always the male not doing his part. My males have all gone through the spawning at full participation. Either they are shooting blanks, the females are sterile or the water is not right for the eggs to hatch. There are so many reasons why spawns don't survive. That male"bashing" is more a sign of immaturity of the female I believe. She should know that she needs him to make more babies. I'm just sayin'


That old addage that it take a few times for the fish to "get it right" may now need to be extended to more than a few times. in the case of my Silvers, this was to be their 6th spawn together before he croaked. I have done everything from lowering the PH, artificially hatch them, used just plain rain water and did nothing and I got the same results: DUDS. I believe the fish just need more practice at this point. That is why I am trying to get some proven successful breeders to see if they still have problems with my water. That to could be the problem. The water, where I am, may just not be suitable to hatch eggs in. THAT would mean a big change in my plans. But then again, none of the fish that have spawned have ever bred before so maybe it's an "A" for effort and a wait and see game. Who knows, time will tell. I don't get too up.... or down.... on new young fish spawning. Duds are SOP with them (Standard Operating Procedure.)

Don't let the female beat him up too much. Put in a glass divider if you have too to protect him. He might become useless if she beats him too badly.

'till next time

 

[Bdonaldson]

I know that sometimes the partners take revenge for unsuccessful spawning results but it's not always the male not doing his part. My males have all gone through the spawning at full participation. Either they are shooting blanks, the females are sterile or the water is not right for the eggs to hatch. There are so many reasons why spawns don't survive. That male"bashing" is more a sign of immaturity of the female I believe. She should know that she needs him to make more babies. I'm just sayin'

That old addage that it take a few times for the fish to "get it right" may now need to be extended to more than a few times. in the case of my Silvers, this was to be their 6th spawn together before he croaked. I have done everything from lowering the PH, artificially hatch them, used just plain rain water and did nothing and I got the same results: DUDS. I believe the fish just need more practice at this point. That is why I am trying to get some proven successful breeders to see if they still have problems with my water. That to could be the problem. The water, where I am, may just not be suitable to hatch eggs in. THAT would mean a big change in my plans. But then again, none of the fish that have spawned have ever bred before so maybe it's an "A" for effort and a wait and see game. Who knows, time will tell. I don't get too up.... or down.... on new young fish spawning. Duds are SOP with them (Standard Operating Procedure.)

Don't let the female beat him up too much. Put in a glass divider if you have too to protect him. He might become useless if she beats him too badly.

'till next time

Yeah you have a point Andy. But that being said, this particular pair was sold to me as a successful mated pair. So I am just thinking that they need more time to adjust to their new surroundings. This morning they were going around in circles lip locking and the eggs had been cleaned off the slate. Maybe they are getting ready to try again.

 

[Karay]

I have some very unfortunate news. I lost my black pair and their spawn. I'm a little uncertain as to what happened. I was away a day and a half leaving early Saturday morning returning mid afternoon Sunday which meant that I didn't feed them or see any of my fish before I left. I returned to finding them laying on the bottom of the tank and the eggs had gone fuzzy with the food in the tank completely untouched. What I do know is my wife mentioned that by the morning feeding one of them was laying on its side but still moving so she thought nothing of it. So this tells me that it wasn't any of her feedings that caused this (as it over feeding). Now the heater I had in the tank was one of those cheap tetra heaters that could barely keep the tanks at 74 so I purchased a new heater on Friday night and put it in that evening. Any thoughts on whether that could've cause this. A foreign substance on the heater that was toxic perhaps. The temp was 78. I checked that right away. I didn't bother checking the ammo and nitrite as I knew they would be through the roof with them being dead for almost 24 hours and the food also breaking down. I'm very saddened by this the lost of such beautiful fish.

 

[Andy Sager]

I have some very unfortunate news. I lost my black pair and their spawn. I'm a little uncertain as to what happened. I was away a day and a half leaving early Saturday morning returning mid afternoon Sunday which meant that I didn't feed them or see any of my fish before I left. I returned to finding them laying on the bottom of the tank and the eggs had gone fuzzy with the food in the tank completely untouched. What I do know is my wife mentioned that by the morning feeding one of them was laying on its side but still moving so she thought nothing of it. So this tells me that it wasn't any of her feedings that caused this (as it over feeding). Now the heater I had in the tank was one of those cheap tetra heaters that could barely keep the tanks at 74 so I purchased a new heater on Friday night and put it in that evening. Any thoughts on whether that could've cause this. A foreign substance on the heater that was toxic perhaps. The temp was 78. I checked that right away. I didn't bother checking the ammo and nitrite as I knew they would be through the roof with them being dead for almost 24 hours and the food also breaking down. I'm very saddened by this the lost of such beautiful fish.

Oh that is a sad thing to hear. So sorry for your loss Ray.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is something got into the water. If the heater had stuck, the temp in the water would still be high. I still would have done a water test just to satisfy my curiosity as the ammonia level wouldn't have risen from the fish dying. It rises from the fish decaying. Depending on how much food was decaying in the tank would have determined how high the ammonia would have gone up.

OK, Sherlock Holmes time Did the fish have their gill plates open or closed? Open gills means asphyxiation. Lack of necessary oxygen level in the water. That means the air supply would have had to be off for some time , extremely high temps could also cause this, if there were plants in the tank, they could have given off too much CO2 and did the fish in. Any of these sound plausible to your situation?
Closed gills= more natural reasons. ( i.e. Disease, emotional distress, freight.) Have this pair's eggs been hatching on a regular basis? If so, sounds like something could have gotten in the water to kill the fish. ALL of the eggs wouldn't necessarily die from lack of fanning but would from lack of good water quality. 24 hours seems too short for "normal" reasons to have caused this outcome ( in my opinion.) But then again, stuff happens Oh the life of a fish keeper

 

[Karay]

I did not think to check to state of the gills. I can say that my tanks are all run by blower so air is pumped in there continually. Also the temperature was at 78 so extreme high temp is out. There is plastic in the tank so they weren't any co2 emitting from plants. Now as to the eggs covered in fungus could have been caused by fungus over the white eggs since the parents weren't there to pluck them away. Unfortunately this was their second attempt at spawning. They actually laid their eggs on Friday afternoon. I can say that I did water changes on Thursday evening. Since then I found the eggs laid after that were mostly white. Even from my koi angels which have been pumping out out large fertile spawns faithfully. I began to doubt the water quality from the tap.

 

[Andy Sager]

I did not think to check to state of the gills. I can say that my tanks are all run by blower so air is pumped in there continually. Also the temperature was at 78 so extreme high temp is out. There is plastic in the tank so they weren't any co2 emitting from plants. Now as to the eggs covered in fungus could have been caused by fungus over the white eggs since the parents weren't there to pluck them away. Unfortunately this was their second attempt at spawning. They actually laid their eggs on Friday afternoon. I can say that I did water changes on Thursday evening. Since then I found the eggs laid after that were mostly white. Even from my koi angels which have been pumping out out large fertile spawns faithfully. I began to doubt the water quality from the tap.

Well then Watson, time to check all the parameters of your tap water and better yet, call your water department and ask if they have changed anything lately. Maybe they have added something and you will need to add another pre-filter before you can use the water. Do you use PRIME before using your water? I'm thinking that is what may have saved my female marble? Still not sure what the heck was going on with her but a total water change of only 30% shouldn't have been enough to bring her back. Even tho I am on well water and the water was softened through a resin bag, I still added the PRIME to the tank "just in case." Long story short, she spawned yesterday so I'm sticking with using the prime before adding any water to the tanks.
I'm thinking that this is a case of something in the water that is new and evidently toxic. May also be just from your pipes so you may also want to have your water tested by the water company to see if it matches theirs if they say 'NO, we haven't changed a thing." Just something else to think about.

 

[Autumnsky]

There is much sad news here lately. I am so sorry for everyone's losses. Rather heart breaking. Wishing everyone some good new starts.

 

[Bdonaldson]

Oh so sorry for everyone's loss. I hope things get better for you all.

 

[bob mccoy]

Good morning and good luck to all of us today. had a big storm roll through last night so now all fishies are cleaning slates and rocks. im getting tanks ready for eggs and trying to pair up a couple koi wit a couple males. got pleco eggs in the cave so playing the waiting game on them. the wife wants to sell all her giant gold fish so that will open up another 55 for grow out.

 

[Andy Sager]

There is much sad news here lately. I am so sorry for everyone's losses. Rather heart breaking. Wishing everyone some good new starts.

Oh so sorry for everyone's loss. I hope things get better for you all.

I know it sounds like I'm heartless but this is the nature of keeping livestock. Bottom line: sometimes they die for reasons unknown. Worse is that they are programmed to die in a fairly short amount of time compared to us and other longer lived pets. This is why I don't name my fish. It makes the loss even harder when you know that "Joe" ( arbitrary fish name) died today. Don't get me wrong, I do/did name some of my pets. For example, I had a squirrel Monkey for over 21 years. (average lifespan: 20- 25 years. Mine died at 24 years old.) He had a name My dogs, having lived for over 15 years ( average lifespan of my breeds: 10-15 years), had names. My turtles ( average lifespan from 25-100 years), had names. My fish (average lifespan: less than 5 years), had tank numbers My rule of thumb: if it can be flushed down a toilet, it doesn't get a name. Like I said, I know it sounds heartless but that's just me. I don't treat my fish with any less regard than any other pet I've had, I just know that I am not totally in control of their lifespan. You do the best you can and HOPE for the best. Truth is, if I mourned every fish I've lost over the years, I'd probably be huddled in a corner somewhere bawling uncontrollably like a baby as there have have been many losses in that time. Not all were surprises. Many of my fish lived their natural lifespans. I just get solace in the fact that I have created more fish than I've lost. That evens the score for me

So thank you all for your kind wishes but it's just part of the hobby.

 

[Karay]

I agree. I'm more frustrated by the "what in the world happened" and would like to discover what happened for preventive measures. I've double checked all my water parameters and everything checks out. I can say that I normally use Prime but ran out and am using conditioner that's good for both fresh and saltwater. So I'm thinking in terms of what was different I did a water change using this conditioner and the heater is different. Is there a possibility that there was a toxic substance on the heater. Perhaps I should have scrubbed the heater first. Or do I have a bad batch of conditioner. I'll be performing and test on the conditioner this evening.

 

[Andy Sager]

I agree. I'm more frustrated by the "what in the world happened" and would like to discover what happened for preventive measures. I've double checked all my water parameters and everything checks out. I can say that I normally use Prime but ran out and am using conditioner that's good for both fresh and saltwater. So I'm thinking in terms of what was different I did a water change using this conditioner and the heater is different. Is there a possibility that there was a toxic substance on the heater. Perhaps I should have scrubbed the heater first. Or do I have a bad batch of conditioner. I'll be performing and test on the conditioner this evening.

OK, it's unlikely that there was something chemical on your heater but we will have to chalk that up to "We will never know now" (unless you have someone who can do a gaschromatigraph on your water to see what chemicals are in there.) FYI, I always rinse off anything new I plan on putting into a fish tank before I put it in.
The likely candidate, from what you say, is the conditioner. Since PRIME also deals with heavy metals that may also be in our water, this other conditioner may not so the conditioner part may have been working but the "extra" that the PRIME does may have been the reason your fish have been doing so well. Once again, having your water professionally tested for things like metals as well as ammonia and nitrates would be helpful in this situation. Don't forget, PRIME also makes the ammonia and nitrates non toxic so if there is any of that in your tap water, this other conditioner may not have worked to detoxify them.

It's definitely frustrating when you don't know why. That's for sure. I'm thinking you are going to need a couple guinea pig fish to test out the following: In a bare tank, fill up with tap water and use the new conditioner. Install an airstone and let run for 24 hours. Put in 2-3 test fish and see what happens. By using 2 or 3 fish, you eliminate the possibility of the one fish dying from the stress of the move. If all the fish die, you know it's something to do with the water. If you are still concerned that the conditioner is bad, use it in a gallon of store bought spring water and see if the fish survive. ( I like to put the fish into the spring water first and make sure they live overnight. Then put in the conditioner and see what happens. No dead fish means the conditioner is fine.) You may even want to do this spring water test first. If they die you'll know to get the prime and NEVER let yourself run out.
That's the best I can recommend for now.

 

[Bdonaldson]

I know it sounds like I'm heartless but this is the nature of keeping livestock. Bottom line: sometimes they die for reasons unknown. Worse is that they are programmed to die in a fairly short amount of time compared to us and other longer lived pets. This is why I don't name my fish. It makes the loss even harder when you know that "Joe" ( arbitrary fish name) died today. Don't get me wrong, I do/did name some of my pets. For example, I had a squirrel Monkey for over 21 years. (average lifespan: 20- 25 years. Mine died at 24 years old.) He had a name My dogs, having lived for over 15 years ( average lifespan of my breeds: 10-15 years), had names. My turtles ( average lifespan from 25-100 years), had names. My fish (average lifespan: less than 5 years), had tank numbers My rule of thumb: if it can be flushed down a toilet, it doesn't get a name. Like I said, I know it sounds heartless but that's just me. I don't treat my fish with any less regard than any other pet I've had, I just know that I am not totally in control of their lifespan. You do the best you can and HOPE for the best. Truth is, if I mourned every fish I've lost over the years, I'd probably be huddled in a corner somewhere bawling uncontrollably like a baby as there have have been many losses in that time. Not all were surprises. Many of my fish lived their natural lifespans. I just get solace in the fact that I have created more fish than I've lost. That evens the score for me

So thank you all for your kind wishes but it's just part of the hobby.

I feel the same way Andy. I know it's disappointing when you loose a fish but it is part of being in this hobby. You just can't control everything that happens. As much as we (humans) would like to, its just not possible.

On another note:
At close inspection of my Pearlscale pair I did notice a little white something on my females mouth. So I immediately treated the tank with PimaFix and MelaFix. The next day the white something was gone. I figure she got it from lip locking with the male when she was angry with him for not fertilizing the last batch of eggs. Cleaned their tank last night so tonight I will feed them some frozen food. It seems like they spawn a couple of days after I feed the frozen food. Hopefully by the end of the weekend they will spawn.

 

[WattsySSFC]

Hello! Im new to angelfish breeding i do it purely as a hobby. I ran into a pair accidentally after my 2 favourite angelfish randomly spawned after about 10 months. I have heard of it taking up to 5 or 6 spawns before they get it right but my fish seem to be perfectly up to the task and had LITERALLY 120-150 free swimmers on their first spawn, it was only because i was not prepared for it that i only have about 15 left (4 weeks old now). Bob sent me to this thread and an im open to any advice a new breeder needs to know. I now have a massive lot of wigglers for their 2nd spawn again and have live BBS going now so fingers crossed all goes well this time.

Any tips on culturing micro worms? Mine went mouldy first time round its meant to be really easy?
I wonder why my fish are so good at it without practice!

 

[bob mccoy]

Well welcome to our world lol. micro worms will go bad if u dont start new cultures with the one u have. congrats on the babies. the first thing i can suggest you getting is lots of spare tanks and invest in sponge filters and prime declorinator. i have 22 tanks set up and its still not enough but i have 8 breeding pairs and i have some pairing up in the 75 gallon as we speak. i use 10 gallon for hatching eggs , 30 for grow out , then its off to the 55 and bigger tanks.i breed mine in 30 gallon tanks but some people use 20s also. clean water and clean tanks is one big key to success in breeding angels. i prefer to hatch my own eggs so they will spawn again faster. as soon as the fry are established when parent raised take them out and give them there own tank. andy and others here will be happy to help with any questions u may have. welcome and good luck