Doug's 105 rimless build and diary

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BRS clear mesh. There is no downside to it except you have to look at it in some installs.


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So, up till now, I've never quarantined a single fish- I've imported box after box of wild caught fish and sold them to folks and have seen very few deaths over the years- I could count them on one hand. A few weeks ago however, I bought a single box of fish and distributed them to 3 entirely different systems, and they all did fine, until a few days ago.
Out of the entire box of fish, only two remain (the bornonius anythias I imagine was sick and jumped as a result), and of the two fish, only one doesn't appear sick. Besides that, not only did the new fish die, but they took all the existing fish with them. In my own tank at the moment, I have the blue throat trigger, who looks sick, and the flame angel who doesn't, and also my original yellow tang, who shows no signs of illness at the moment.
On all of the fish there was ich present, but this was not the cause of death. The amount of ich was minimal and I'm guessing was a symptom of the parasite that actually killed the fish.
Sea Dwelling Creatures suggested it was eye flukes, and one of my local friends thinks it's brooklynella. Slime coat increased, and it appeared as though the fish was shedding skin- especially in the head area, but the entire body of most of the fish was eventually covered. The eyes got foggy, and at the end, they could no longer see. They did eat up until the day they died though, which I found surprising.
Since being as horrible as it was, it was an extremely isolated incident, I have not changed my practices. I still feel a QT tank is more stressful than my display.
I'm letting this play out and what happens, happens. if the tank is wiped out, I'll ghost feed for a couple months and try again (from a different vendor, of course).
 
mr_X said:
So, up till now, I've never quarantined a single fish- I've imported box after box of wild caught fish and sold them to folks and have seen very few deaths over the years- I could count them on one hand. A few weeks ago however, I bought a single box of fish and distributed them to 3 entirely different systems, and they all did fine, until a few days ago.
Out of the entire box of fish, only two remain (the bornonius anythias I imagine was sick and jumped as a result), and of the two fish, only one doesn't appear sick. Besides that, not only did the new fish die, but they took all the existing fish with them. In my own tank at the moment, I have the blue throat trigger, who looks sick, and the flame angel who doesn't, and also my original yellow tang, who shows no signs of illness at the moment.
On all of the fish there was ich present, but this was not the cause of death. The amount of ich was minimal and I'm guessing was a symptom of the parasite that actually killed the fish.
Sea Dwelling Creatures suggested it was eye flukes, and one of my local friends thinks it's brooklynella. Slime coat increased, and it appeared as though the fish was shedding skin- especially in the head area, but the entire body of most of the fish was eventually covered. The eyes got foggy, and at the end, they could no longer see. They did eat up until the day they died though, which I found surprising.
Since being as horrible as it was, it was an extremely isolated incident, I have not changed my practices. I still feel a QT tank is more stressful than my display.
I'm letting this play out and what happens, happens. if the tank is wiped out, I'll ghost feed for a couple months and try again (from a different vendor, of course).
Click to expand...
Man so sorry to hear! You're not alone though, I also do not own a quarantine tank and have never quarantined my fish though the guy I deal with treats ask guys fish with copper upon purchase. Hope things work out for you man.
 
Are you interested in that Spiderman Frogspawn? I think I may be able to frag it for you. :D
 
It's such a complex decision as to QT or not. I guess in a perfect world and if I had the room to set up a really proper QT, that it would be the prudent thing to do. But I don't and just using a bare extra tank with a heater doesn't fit my description of a calm soothing environment meant to heal and rest up. At what point does the QT make disease outbreak more or less likely to a new fish?


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Gregcoyote said:
It's such a complex decision as to QT or not. I guess in a perfect world and if I had the room to set up a really proper QT, that it would be the prudent thing to do. But I don't and just using a bare extra tank with a heater doesn't fit my description of a calm soothing environment meant to heal and rest up. At what point does the QT make disease outbreak more or less likely to a new fish?


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice
Click to expand...

I agree, I have on numerous occasions taken a fish that I thought for sure would be "iffy" and have them completely relax and be normal within an hour of being in the display tank, whereas if I had subjected them to quarantine I wonder if they would have faired as well?
This is also one main reason why I am very reluctant to buy livestock online.
I have annoyed more than a few lfs employees by watching a fish for 30 minutes, asking to see it feed, etc. and then not buying it because something just isn't right.

I believe that If you are introducing them into healthy environment, that it can/may preclude any catastrophes.
I am now at about 8-9 weeks in since introducing ich into my system via a yellow wrasse, but have not seen any signs or symptoms in over 7 weeks.

BUT, we all know that it is a roll of the dice each time, depends on the particular problem/parasite and it only has to happen once to wipe out a tank.

sorry to hear about your losses Mr. X.
 
I believe this qualifies for a oh $&#% moment ,... Sorry Doug , it sucks but I'd just keep up with what you know best and put your head into the wind and plow forward


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mr_X said:
So, up till now, I've never quarantined a single fish- I've imported box after box of wild caught fish and sold them to folks and have seen very few deaths over the years- I could count them on one hand. A few weeks ago however, I bought a single box of fish and distributed them to 3 entirely different systems, and they all did fine, until a few days ago.
Out of the entire box of fish, only two remain (the bornonius anythias I imagine was sick and jumped as a result), and of the two fish, only one doesn't appear sick. Besides that, not only did the new fish die, but they took all the existing fish with them. In my own tank at the moment, I have the blue throat trigger, who looks sick, and the flame angel who doesn't, and also my original yellow tang, who shows no signs of illness at the moment.
On all of the fish there was ich present, but this was not the cause of death. The amount of ich was minimal and I'm guessing was a symptom of the parasite that actually killed the fish.
Sea Dwelling Creatures suggested it was eye flukes, and one of my local friends thinks it's brooklynella. Slime coat increased, and it appeared as though the fish was shedding skin- especially in the head area, but the entire body of most of the fish was eventually covered. The eyes got foggy, and at the end, they could no longer see. They did eat up until the day they died though, which I found surprising.
Since being as horrible as it was, it was an extremely isolated incident, I have not changed my practices. I still feel a QT tank is more stressful than my display.
I'm letting this play out and what happens, happens. if the tank is wiped out, I'll ghost feed for a couple months and try again (from a different vendor, of course).
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear about this, Doug. I can't imagine how frustrating this is...I hope things get better soon.
 
The trigger was dried up on the floor when I got home from work. That leaves 2 fish with absolutely no symptoms. Thanks for the well wishes peeps.
 
The trigger had whatever disease or parasite....I believe this provoked his jump. I imagine it's a bit uncomfortable to be feasted on alive. Frankly, I wish my tank was void of fish...but these two stragglers look 100% healthy. I hope they aren't unaffected hosts.
 
mr_X said:
The trigger had whatever disease or parasite....I believe this provoked his jump. I imagine it's a bit uncomfortable to be feasted on alive. Frankly, I wish my tank was void of fish...but these two stragglers look 100% healthy. I hope they aren't unaffected hosts.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry this happened. It's a shame. I was curious about something you posted earlier in the thread.

You mentioned a BB sized brown lesion on the chin of one of your fish and wondered if it bumped an anemone. Do you think that lesion was related to this disease/parasite?
 
I don't know...but no other signs of stress/distress were seen for approximately 2 weeks. they all got over the initial "hey...I'm in a glass box instead of the ocean" syndrome and adapted to eating everything I threw at them and then all of the sudden, they all started dropping like flies.
 
mr_X said:
I don't know...but no other signs of stress/distress were seen for approximately 2 weeks. they all got over the initial "hey...I'm in a glass box instead of the ocean" syndrome and adapted to eating everything I threw at them and then all of the sudden, they all started dropping like flies.
Click to expand...

For the heck of it, I googled some of the things you were considering. No doubt you've already viewed similar results. However, the slime coat and rapid deaths seem consistent with Brooklynella - looks like that is a hard hitter, can kill within hours and can be carried in by anything 'wet' such as live rock or even a snail (getting this info from threads on reef central - can't verify any of it).

From this site: Brooklynella hostilis and Uronema marinum | UltimateReef.Com

Uronema marinum can be confused with brooklynella. Uronema marinum in rare cases, causes an internal infection where it invades through the skin and forms abscesses in the liver, muscles and other organs where it can cause a long term chronic infection. Just speculation but if your other fish seem healthy, it might be possible that the infection could present as long term/chronic.

Also saw this - The major difference between Brook and Uronema is that the lesions associated with Uronema marinum have a more defined margin between the thickened mucus and normal skin that is often red and inflamed.

Just like to throw out the disclaimer that I have no expertise in any of this, just passing along what I gathered in google searches. I didn't get to flukes. I'm sure they are equally disturbing.
 
I didn't see any redness on any fish, nor inflammation. Mouths gaping, breathing heavily, slimy heads (almost resembling the skin just peeling off and blowing away), cloudy eyes, and apparent blindness towards the very end. Some of the fish turned a pale gray/almost white towards the end as well. One thing is for certain...it wasn't a peaceful death.
 
Sounds like a gill issue to me. Slow suffocation. It's hard being a fish in a glass box.


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mr_X said:
I didn't see any redness on any fish, nor inflammation. Mouths gaping, breathing heavily, slimy heads (almost resembling the skin just peeling off and blowing away), cloudy eyes, and apparent blindness towards the very end. Some of the fish turned a pale gray/almost white towards the end as well. One thing is for certain...it wasn't a peaceful death.
Click to expand...

Oh Jesus, I'm so sorry. Sounds like radiation poisoning, like they were hit with a freaking nuke or something. I'm sure you'd rather forget this so I'm done with my questions :(
 
Sadial said:
Oh Jesus, I'm so sorry. Sounds like radiation poisoning, like they were hit with a freaking nuke or something. I'm sure you'd rather forget this so I'm done with my questions :(
Click to expand...
I was wondering if these fish could be suffering from cyanide poisoning from capture.
 
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