29 Gallon Planted Build...Advice Appreciated!!!

[Fishfur]

I've found I get the best algae growth from direct sunlight, more so than any other light source, but if I give them 6500 K light as close as possible for at least 18 hours a day.. in winter I make it 24/7, it grows well enough. I put liquid ferts in the algae farm too, 2-3x a week.

The best algae growing media I've found are white marble chips, like they sell for gardens or driveways, and ceramic filter media.. the round cylinder ones work well. Smooth polished rocks won't grow any and some rocks, and I wish I knew what they were made of, also don't grow much, if any. Maybe it's the mineral composition of some that deters algae, whatever it is, if a rock isn't growing any when neighbouring rocks are, it probably won't ever grow any.

 

[fish wrangler]

The rocks that I have now where growing algae in the tank before I took them out

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[Fishfur]

Wish mine were ! Most of the rocks I had that did grow algae are in storage right now.. while my landlord and I argue over when or if he'll fix up everything that's falling apart around here. Seriously annoying, to say the least. So I run my lights longer than I should, and most of my pennywort and other plants are getting a fair bit of algae on them.. but I don't want the Otos to starve.

I'm experimenting with different photo periods to see how many hours give me enough algae to keep the Otos fed but not so much it get ugly looking. When I find my bag of ceramic media I will set up a jar under lights to grow more algae and shorten the photo period so it stops growing on the leaves and other surfaces in the tank. The Otos seem to prefer eating algae off of glass and rocks to leaves, though they do graze leaves too.

 

[fish wrangler]

My glass has some kinda of algae or growth that gives the tank a cloudy look. Not sure what it is though

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[fish wrangler]

Update

I got a snail from plants. Its still way to tiny to tell what kind. Not to worried about it becoming a problem righr now because it is only 1, and it eats my little bit of algae

I also added DIY co2 last night.got everything how I want it a couple minutes ago

What are those bumps on my wisteria leaf??? They seem to be just on the wisteria.

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[Fishfur]

Can be diatoms..[ brown algae ], usually soft, but there's a brownish sort of yuk that's harder than brown algae too, not sure what it is exactly. So many kind of green algae, from blue green, which is very soft and messy, to green spot, easy to ID and not hard to scrape off, but then you have to change the filter media or it just comes right back, the filter removes it but enough escapes to start it over, and there's loads of other green ones, free floating ones give you green water, filamentous ones give you hair algae, among others, and BBA. black brush algae, really ugly and hard to get rid of. Sigh... keeping a balance is not always easy.
Usually I don't have much problem with stuff on the glass, but the tank with Otos in it has Spixi snails. Spixis eat other snails, but there are so many MTS, they're surviving. Spixi are not as efficient as Assassin snails are, but they keep down the bladder and ramshorn types pretty well. But they do not keep glass clean.. they spend very little time on the glass, and because they've eaten most of the ramshorns and bladder types, they don't either.

Otos are usually quite good at keeping glass clean, and most of the algae I'm seeing is on the leaves rather than the glass, so the Otos are working at it pretty hard. They are relatively young and I haven't had them all that long, so hopefully they'll do even better as time goes by. They'd been in the store for at least a month before I got them, and I hope most of them will survive.

What lumps do you refer to ? The ones at the leaf nodes, where the leaf joins a stem, are new growth. The stuff that looks a bit fuzzy is probably just detritus that has settled on the leaf. It happens.. give them a shake and it should come off.

Looks like a young ramshorn, but it's hard to tell, pic is not quite clear.

 

[fish wrangler]

There is the green algae I have on the back glass. That was there before the plants though

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[fish wrangler]

I am hoping to pass the 24 hr fishless cycle test tomorrow. If I do i will drain all the water, refill, and get the black skirts or neons. Not sure which one to get first. Maybe rhe black skirts because I heard they are more hardy

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[fish wrangler]

Can be diatoms..[ brown algae ], usually soft, but there's a brownish sort of yuk that's harder than brown algae too, not sure what it is exactly. So many kind of green algae, from blue green, which is very soft and messy, to green spot, easy to ID and not hard to scrape off, but then you have to change the filter media or it just comes right back, the filter removes it but enough escapes to start it over, and there's loads of other green ones, free floating ones give you green water, filamentous ones give you hair algae, among others, and BBA. black brush algae, really ugly and hard to get rid of. Sigh... keeping a balance is not always easy.
Usually I don't have much problem with stuff on the glass, but the tank with Otos in it has Spixi snails. Spixis eat other snails, but there are so many MTS, they're surviving. Spixi are not as efficient as Assassin snails are, but they keep down the bladder and ramshorn types pretty well. But they do not keep glass clean.. they spend very little time on the glass, and because they've eaten most of the ramshorns and bladder types, they don't either.

Otos are usually quite good at keeping glass clean, and most of the algae I'm seeing is on the leaves rather than the glass, so the Otos are working at it pretty hard. They are relatively young and I haven't had them all that long, so hopefully they'll do even better as time goes by. They'd been in the store for at least a month before I got them, and I hope most of them will survive.

What lumps do you refer to ? The ones at the leaf nodes, where the leaf joins a stem, are new growth. The stuff that looks a bit fuzzy is probably just detritus that has settled on the leaf. It happens.. give them a shake and it should come off.

Looks like a young ramshorn, but it's hard to tell, pic is not quite clear.

Its the fuzzy stuff. When I empty the tank of the water b4 adding fish should I try and catch the snail so he doesn't get damaged or if I change it fast enough will he be ok???

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[trennamw]

I find my MTS also like the marimo balls. Be sure to pull the balls out once in awhile and give them a squeeze out, as they tend to collect debris inside the ball.

And if you plan to have Otos, best to allow some algae to grow for them to eat. They are pretty much obligate algae eaters. Many of them will not eat man made foods, and subsist on biofilm if there's no algae. I actually grow algae on rocks outside the tank, in the brightest light I have, and drop them in for them to clean up, and then put back in the algae farm to grow more.

They're not so much delicate as they are reliant on gut bacteria to digest their algae. After they are caught [ using cyanide to stun them], they starve 'til they get to your tank, unless the store has a tank with algae in it for them, which pretty much never happens. They don't even recognize algae tabs as being edible in many cases.. they've come from rivers full of real algae ! So their gut flora die off and they can appear to be full of food when in fact they are starving, due to lack of bacteria to digest what they did eat.

The advice to buy them after they've been in a store for awhile is excellent.. the weakest will have died by then, sadly enough. Drip acclimation is good too.

Generally, if they live two months in your tank, they will live for years. But many of them do not make it past the two month mark. Only the strongest of them survive. It's a shame, they are such charming little guys.

That's so fascinating. Gut bacteria is the heart of so many new findings in ham health too.

I've never had an Oto fail to eat algae wafers though. I've had 3 different species from 3 different stores at 4 different times. Omega one algae wafers. The tetras try to steal them, they don't with other brands, so maybe there's something better in them.


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[fish wrangler]

That's so fascinating. Gut bacteria is the heart of so many new findings in ham health too.

I've never had an Oto fail to eat algae wafers though. I've had 3 different species from 3 different stores at 4 different times. Omega one algae wafers. The tetras try to steal them, they don't with other brands, so maybe there's something better in them.


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Hey i have a bag of those wafers. I elm grow the algae rock just in care things don't work out with the wafers

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[evil Nick]

cant you just cut some zucchini for ottos like and other algae eater?

Snail looks like a pond snail to me. I got some from some plants.
Not sure why but have been lucky they havent boomed (wonder if my MTS invasion are really assassins lol). When I see to many I just pick them out but honestly not to many because I MAY still get a pea puffer so long as he wont attack my nerite or mystery snail. They would be triple his size and there are more than enough small MTS and pond in there now to.

Got lucky to because my platy seemed to get a taste for the eggs. I was leaving some sacks on a val leaf I saw and then a day or so later noticed the platy was pecking at the egg sacks and then BAM they were all gone like an hour later. maybe coincidence, but I dont ask questions.
Ive also seen my new BB gobies go after a pond snail a couple times while theyre moving around. He never gets it out of shell but maybe they will nab the babies as well if they are small enough for their mouths.

 

[Fishfur]

I know some Otos learn to eat algae wafers.. but I think a vast number of them don't, and it can take quite some time for them to figure out it's edible too. If yours did, that's terrific. I had one that seemed to eat a bit of wafer but only one, of a dozen, and this current bunch I have show no interest at all. They're supposed to be Golden Otos. They're quite young, I think, they are very small. It might well be the type of food you're using. I've used Omega pellets myself.

I think Otos are something like cows, because they rely so heavily on their bacteria pals to digest their food. I grant you, cows have those extra stomachs, but if a cow goes hungry too long, [ as little as 6-12 hours without food ] it can cause a lot of pretty serious gut issues for them, or metabolic disorders.

I'm more amazed at the number of Otos that do survive, given they're all wild caught. Imagine if you were stunned with a chemical, yanked out of your home, held without food for days and days with a crowd of others, before you're scooped up, bagged & shipped off to a store.

When they let you out, nothing looks like home and there isn't a living speck of green food to be seen anywhere. And then they get bagged up again and moved once more. Too many do not do research first and don't realize these fish can starve. I don't know how long it takes for their gut flora to grow again, but I would expect it takes at least a couple of weeks, if not longer. I've yet to find any research on what bacteria they need, but even if you knew which ones, getting them might be pretty tough.

Edit. Got around to looking up Golden Oto.. seems they've been reclassified. Macrotocinclus affinis, formerly Otocinclus affinis, and they might be adults, seems they are the smallest of the species. Also thought to be less hardy than most of the other species. Guess it's good I have plenty of algae for them. Live and learn !

 

[trennamw]

Huh. I have Oto affinis too.

Maybe they did take a long time to catch on to the wafers. I had good diatoms when they arrive and plenty of biofilm, I think. They were always munching away on something that appeared to have nothing on it.

I believe biofilm includes bacteria. And given that fish poo is everywhere, they probably repopulate gut bacteria quite fast in a normal tank. Might be another reason they need established tanks ... Not too sterile.


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[fish wrangler]

I will grow the algae just in case the otos dont eat the wafers or fresh fruit. I will have a back up plan thay way

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[Fishfur]

Biofilm IS bacteria, plain and simple. A number of different ones, mainly heterotrophic but the film also has some of the BB we rely on in the filters, and including some that, under the right conditions, can be pathogens; often called opportunistic, since they only cause problems when the opportunity arises.

Mature tanks, which have been running for a number of months, [ 6 months is often the minimum time quoted ] have more biofilm. I have often thought there must be some sort of relationship between the biofilm and species that are said to need mature tanks. Since most of those species don't eat bioflim, it can't be just because it can be eaten by a few species. I sometimes wonder if it's some of symbiosis that is lacking in tanks that haven't grown enough biofilm to suit these species.

 

[fish wrangler]

If I where to put a new filter pad into my filter what is the best way to seed the new filter pad? Would this send me into a mini cycle?

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[fish wrangler]

TANK IS CYCLED!

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[trennamw]

That's great!!

Put the new pad in with the existing pad if at all possible. You might want to use sponge instead as it's more durable.

As for biofilm ... I thought it was bacteria and fungi and many other things? And would the bacteria necessarily be gut bacteria?

I'm really skeptical about the 6 month estimate for biofilm. I put Otos in at 6 weeks and they do their sucky face on the glass thing with no apparent algae. I also moved my tank, during which process the glass dried out, and it was again just a few weeks when the glass felt slippery and the Otos started feasting there instead of the algae wafers. There was algae on rocks and they preferred the glass.


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[fish wrangler]

That's great!!

Put the new pad in with the existing pad if at all possible. You might want to use sponge instead as it's more durable.

As for biofilm ... I thought it was bacteria and fungi and many other things? And would the bacteria necessarily be gut bacteria?

I'm really skeptical about the 6 month estimate for biofilm. I put Otos in at 6 weeks and they do their sucky face on the glass thing with no apparent algae. I also moved my tank, during which process the glass dried out, and it was again just a few weeks when the glass felt slippery and the Otos started feasting there instead of the algae wafers. There was algae on rocks and they preferred the glass.


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Ok, I will add the black skirts tomorrow, neons next weekend, then the shrimp, wait 2 weeks add the loaches, and finally the otos.

I don't have any sponges, but lots of filter floss pads to use up.

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