Failure :(

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LCieParagon said:
I don't necessarily agree with the female betta conclusion. I've had 4 tanks with at least 4 females in them and no casualties. That's a pretty high success rate. The more females in the tank, the better because aggression is dispersed. There are many, many tutorials even and videos on how to make that situation succeed. Males I understand your point. I've come across little to no threads on it where it's been even attempted. I felt with research, why not give it a try.


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That's funny. I gave up looking at harem threads here on the forum because soo many of them failed.
 
All 3 bettas are really healthy! They swim and eat together. Not an ounce of aggression. I really want to add more, but I don't know!


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This is the craziest thread I've read so far! So interesting. I would never have the guts to try this, but I'm a total newbie. It's funny, maybe it's because I'm so new but my whole approach to fish keeping is to take NO risks, lol. I just don't feel comfortable taking risks that could result in losing a fish. I'm so grateful to the fish keepers that have experience that are willing to participate in these forums and share information and experience with newbies like me. I hope all your bettas thrive. Amazing tank!


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Yeah my bettas are doing very well. I'm very happy with them. I have an altum angel in there and a pair of viejitas. So cool too.

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This has to be the most insane tank. So many chances for a murder and yet nothing


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I guess I dont understand the purpose of what you tried to accomplish? Is it because its pretty impossible to do, or did you just want more than one betta? They are kept in cups and separate for a reason.
 
Can't believe no one has hit... pictures or it didn't happen:p

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Can't believe no one has hit... pictures or it didn't happen:p
I'm with you. I want to see a pic just to see the Altum Angel

OK I am a newbie to fish keeping and I have gotten help from many of the folks here who have put in their 2¢ on this so called experiment. So to those who assume that us newbies will just pick out parts to read maybe some but I read this entire thread. This OP claims to have done research yet didn't know that Beta were Siamese Fighting Fish - COME ON EVEN I KNOW THAT!! I saw 1 picture here and i didn't see any fish in the picture. I cant believe it took this long for ya'all to question the integrity of this OP. Seriously not to be a mean person but if the OP did research and knew the facts that they fight and 1 dies, why do this by putting multiple in there, or why more than 2 even? Is it like some sick kind of game to watch the fish fight to see who wins in the end? I am not sure, personally I began to question this when i saw the first picture of a heavily planted tank with no fish visible. Ok they may have been there and hiding I don't know. But seriously do you people really think that all of the sudden the OP stops commenting and when questioned all they could say was all is good and then be super creative about other fish they have added to this tank... Read the OP's comments, they seem to know everything and had an answer as how he was right about what he was doing and the way he was going about it even though most people were advising him how bad of an idea this was. I would like to see the drawing of this fish tank that he has, i bet its really wild or insane as one person mentioned previously... Come on people please don't tell me you can really believe all of this. The OP has a wild imagination and/or a sick way of thinking and a mind set that is cruel to animals, even fish... Ok thats my rant.... I read what you all had to say. IMO if the OP did post pictures I would not believe it at this point..
as the saying goes: beLIEve none of what you hear and HALF of what you see
 
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amyb_70 said:
Can't believe no one has hit... pictures or it didn't happen:p
I'm with you. I want to see a pic just to see the Altum Angel

OK I am a newbie to fish keeping and I have gotten help from many of the folks here who have put in their 2¢ on this so called experiment. So to those who assume that us newbies will just pick out parts to read maybe some but I read this entire thread. This OP claims to have done research yet didn't know that Beta were Siamese Fighting Fish - COME ON EVEN I KNOW THAT!! I saw 1 picture here and i didn't see any fish in the picture. I cant believe it took this long for ya'all to question the integrity of this OP. Seriously not to be a mean person but if the OP did research and knew the facts that they fight and 1 dies, why do this by putting multiple in there, or why more than 2 even? Is it like some sick kind of game to watch the fish fight to see who wins in the end? I am not sure, personally I began to question this when i saw the first picture of a heavily planted tank with no fish visible. Ok they may have been there and hiding I don't know. But seriously do you people really think that all of the sudden the OP stops commenting and when questioned all they could say was all is good and then be super creative about other fish they have added to this tank... Read the OP's comments, they seem to know everything and had an answer as how he was right about what he was doing and the way he was going about it even though most people were advising him how bad of an idea this was. I would like to see the drawing of this fish tank that he has, i bet its really wild or insane as one person mentioned previously... Come on people please don't tell me you can really believe all of this. The OP has a wild imagination and/or a sick way of thinking and a mind set that is cruel to animals, even fish... Ok thats my rant.... I read what you all had to say. IMO if the OP did post pictures I would not believe it at this point..
as the saying goes: beLIEve none of what you hear and HALF of what you see
Click to expand...
While you and brookster do make some valid points, knowing what the fish in question can be makes the whole thing as plausable as it is implausable. Do I agree with keeping multiple male bettas together? No, but then again, I did it when I was breeding them until they were old enough to do serious damage to the fins making them unsalable. Sometimes that was months together. So it IS possible to keep multiple males together under the right conditions. Today's bettas are a far cry from the ones of yesteryear so finding non combative fish is not as hard as it once was. Again, I don;t advocate this type setup as it is a risk and not the norm for these fish.
A picture would definitely help the credibility of the OP for sure. NOTHING on the internet is believable without one these days. And with photoshop, not even pictures can be believed. So where does that leave us? You can't believe what you read or see on the internet. Right? Then why have it at all? Might as well close down this site as well. :eek: Where's the happy median? Once again I say, "You need to see what qualifies the person giving the advice to be giving the advice." I read of more people successfully keeping fish against popular/ suggested methods from the past. Maybe they are, and maybe they are just typing to see their own names on screen? Who knows? How can we tell? Thankfully, I have older sources of information that it doesn;t matter to me either way. But it should matter to a "newbie".
I suggest you find a good local Mom & Pop shop and support them before relying on the internet for your help. When you make your living by keeping stock alive, you tend to know more about that stock. Everybody has an opinion but only a local person to you can guide you to your local conditions. THAT'S the info you need.

(y)
 
Come on Treemanone2003, do I or don't I have and make valid points. I was not trying to be mean or rude just stating the way I perceived the story, for lack of better words.


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Andy, I agree with you. Your keeping the males together you did it at a time that was safe for the fish, but that was also what was putting food on your table. I personally understand and don't argue that, to do it as an experiment, idk mix mentoes and coke that's an experiment.
If you look hard enough you can find any answer you want on the internet. I stumbled across this site, I ask lots of questions. I also am familiar with some of the people who respond and I am more likely to listen to those who I feel clearly know what they are talking about. Others I will read the advise and think about if it really makes sense. If it does I research more, if it doesn't again I research more just different ways. You know who I listen to here. :)


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amyb_70 said:
Come on Treemanone2003, do I or don't I have and make valid points. I was not trying to be mean or rude just stating the way I perceived the story, for lack of better words.


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Always dear !!! I never thought it was rude, just love your honesty and not sugar coating things. (Gold stars in my book ?)


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amyb_70 said:
Andy, I agree with you. Your keeping the males together you did it at a time that was safe for the fish, but that was also what was putting food on your table. I personally understand and don't argue that, to do it as an experiment, idk mix mentoes and coke that's an experiment.
If you look hard enough you can find any answer you want on the internet. I stumbled across this site, I ask lots of questions. I also am familiar with some of the people who respond and I am more likely to listen to those who I feel clearly know what they are talking about. Others I will read the advise and think about if it really makes sense. If it does I research more, if it doesn't again I research more just different ways. You know who I listen to here. :)


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A couple of things: Experimenting in the fish trade has long been an acceptable method of discovery. How else would one have found out that a Gourami from Asia could live peacefully with an Angelfish from S. America? The natural world is full of things yet discovered. So defining an experiment, in your example, is not really scientifically expansive. I get your point, (y), I'm just sayin' ;)

As for what I did in the past, because it "puts food on the table" is not an acceptable reason for mistreating the fish and bad husbandry. As I've said previously in other threads, Bettas have to be one of the most misunderstood fishes in the trade. They are also some of the oldest fish to be domesticated. Their early story is not a pretty one and their current state of existence is a far cry from their origins. "They need a lot of room", " They need filters and aeration", "They should be kept in a minimum of 5 gals of water!!!". All these are not true yet people passionately argue they are the truth. So who do you believe? I did what I did because I understand the fish. That's my "gift" so to speak. I have studied these fish we keep as pets for many years. What we have today to choose from are a far cry from their ancestors ( which saddens me greatly) . HOWEVER, because of this, what can be done with today's fish most likely would not have been able to be done with the ancestors. So is the experiment wrong? Only if all Bettas always beat the crap out of all other Bettas. That's just not so anymore. :nono:

So keep up the good fight, just understand the whole picture. (y)
 
amyb_70 said:
Is it like some sick kind of game to watch the fish fight to see who wins in the end?
Click to expand...

fighting and placing bets on Bettas is a very, very old "sport" and was the genesis of keeping/breeding them.
Without the sport of fighting them, there would not be as many varieties as there are now as many strains were bred over the centuries.



I am curious that you can launch a rant at another person, anytime I have done that it has resulted in my being warned, getting "infractions" and posts or entire threads being deleted.

must be a gender thing...
 
Valid points Andy, I may have been quick to judge although I do not feel this was the appropriate way to go about it. People like you (experienced, expert) and like the OP claims to be. It would seem a person with that much expertise would not have to come on a site like this telling about his failure. To each their own I I suppose.
I come hear and read many threads in hopes to learn this one happened to annoy me.. I did not learn anything about fish, but was well educated on the human species. ?


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Andy, I understand your points. However, today's aquarium trade is not geared towards people like us here at AA, it's pointed to those who want Dory and Nemo. I think that to ensure fish safety, we need to overestimate requirements for fish so that people who take a Betta home will hopefully choose a larger tank where mistakes common to all beginners won't show as much. For people with an understanding, which I feel most here at AA qualify as, keeping a Betta in a bowl is completely appropriate because we know the science. We know that three or four pellets, not 10, is plenty. We know water changes are required in any aquarium. We know, in short, how to properly care for fish. Many of us have aquariums with stocks that would give AqAdvisor a heart attack. But we can manage those stocks, we can recognize issues that many people that use that site cannot. And sure, hopefully one day we can have people who really care, before the trade dissolves altogether. But for now, I feel safer advocating for goldfish in ponds and Bettas in five gallons of filtered water than I do telling people a bowl is perfectly fine, which it is, because many of those people will not grasp cycling and water changes ever, if at all. Even shops are pandering to these people. So yes, the brochures provided at my local big box store saying a Betta needs a minimum of a quart is correct. But what is not correct is the assessment that a 10% weekly change for the first month and a 25% monthly change after that is acceptable. It's not correct for people who have no experience and just want a fishy for little Bobby or Emma. We need to differentiate in this trade between people like us, who tell the employees how to care for fish, and little Bobby that wants a goldfish, whose parents have no interest. Experimentation, sure. It's how you learn. It's perfectly fine. Every time a new medicine is tested on people, isn't that exactly what we are doing? I've no qualms with experimentation, but I think it needs to be carried out by someone who at least does a weekly water change. So, sure, stock your ten gallon with some angels, as I know Andy does/did with his breeding pairs, but watch them. Keep them healthy. Intervene when necessary. That's exactly what the OP is doing here.


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