Hybrids/Crossbreeds

[DragonFish71]

Why Glofish? The fish arent harmed and the method of making them that color is 100% humane. The gene was injected into the embryo and the fish was hatched like that. They breed true so probably a good amount if not all of the storebought ones are born that way.
I have a HUGE problem with balloons, blood parrots, and the deformed goldfish. They cant live normally. I also cannot stand tattooed or dyed fish.

So injecting something into an embryo is ok with you?
Not so with me. It's my right to find it offensive. It is still altering the natural way of a fish and to me it's morally reprehensible.

 

[DragonFish71]

And, for the record, there are fish that are dyed.

Jelly bean parrots, painted indian glass fish, tetras etc

Death By Dyeing - Fish Death By Dyeing

Painted fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[GodFan]

So injecting something into an embryo is ok with you?
Not so with me. It's my right to find it offensive. It is still altering the natural way of a fish and to me it's morally reprehensible.

Ok then all hybrids not occuring in nature are too? What about fancy guppies? Thats not the natural way of the fish? And they injected some. Now they breed true. The fish arent harmed. Its a natural gene not a chemical.

 

[tarpon]

Woah....dyed glass catfish would be soo cool...it would be horrible and i wouldnt buy. But so cool looking. They need to do the glofish thing where they infuse the gene with glass cats..thatd look so cool...im gonna do it.

 

[GodFan]

And, for the record, there are fish that are dyed.

Jelly bean parrots, painted indian glass fish, tetras etc

Death By Dyeing - Fish Death By Dyeing

Painted fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I never said theyre werent but glofish arent.

 

[tarpon]

So injecting something into an embryo is ok with you?
Not so with me. It's my right to find it offensive. It is still altering the natural way of a fish and to me it's morally reprehensible.

Im not sure whether the original generation of glofish were injected but now they are created through breeding of other glofish and no injection is required. Just make sure you dont breed them in california

 

[GodFan]

Im not sure whether the original generation of glofish were injected but now they are created through breeding of other glofish and no injection is required. Just make sure you dont breed them in california

Dont get caught with them in Cali at all lol

 

[DragonFish71]

Ok then all hybrids not occuring in nature are too? What about fancy guppies? Thats not the natural way of the fish? And they injected some. Now they breed true. The fish arent harmed. Its a natural gene not a chemical.

It's a natural gene from marine organisms, not a danio.

GloFish® Fluorescent Fish FAQ

Where does the fluorescent color come from?
The fluorescent color in our fish is produced by a fluorescent protein gene, which creates the beautiful fluorescence that can be seen when looking at the fish. The fluorescent protein genes occur naturally, and are derived from marine organisms.


So, since you're ok with splicing a gene from one creature to another, would you allow them to splice the same fluorescent protein into a human embryo? It matters not that now they are born with that gene, the point is that they were ORIGINALLY altered. Just because we can alter an animal, that doesn't mean we should.

If it isn't a natural mutation that enhances the quality of life for the animal, then I have strong moral issues with it. All creatures mutate which either causes that species to continually evolve or die out, but it's a natural mutation.

The way you keep pushing the fact and denouncing other people's ethics on the issue is rather disturbing.

 

[DragonFish71]

I never said theyre werent but glofish arent.

And I never said the Glofish were dyed. I was adding to the discussion in general about fish being dyed/tattooed. You should stop reading things that aren't being said.

 

[GodFan]

And I never said the Glofish were dyed. I was adding to the discussion in general about fish being dyed/tattooed. You should stop reading things that aren't being said.

Sorry. Wow I thought this was just a discussion. If you have moral issues with it fine I dont. God gave us authority over the fish of the sea and the animals of the land. But we are also givin the responsibility to protect them.
Sorry if you were offended. No need to get rude.
As a comunity moderator I kinda expected a little more outta you. Nobody elsed is getting snobby. We are just sharing our opinions.

 

[DragonFish71]

Sorry. Wow I thought this was just a discussion. If you have moral issues with it fine I dont. God gave us authority over the fish of the sea and the animals of the land. But we are also givin the responsibility to protect them.
Sorry if you were offended. No need to get rude.
As a comunity moderator I kinda expected a little more outta you. Nobody elsed is getting snobby. We are just sharing our opinions.

Actually, I'm not being rude. I'm defending the fact that you read too much into what I posted and you still are. I am discussing things in a perfectly rational tone. You are the one who insists upon pushing people on their opinions. If you want to report me as being rude for defending my stance, there's a nice little report button on here, have at it.

You can believe in adding extra genes into something, where as I believe that it is against the laws of nature to do so. And yes, when someone tries to tell me that I'm wrong when I think something is unethical I do get offended. Just as you would get offended if I stated I didn't agree with your beliefs.

 

[GodFan]

BTW DragonFish,
I misunderstood your other post. I do realize that some fish are dyed. I was simply trying to state that glofish arent. I think glofish are different because theyre quality of life is not affected. Guppies being made into fancytails is not natural and makes them swim slower. That was part of my misunderstanding.
So I think we definetly agree on at least a few things. NO DYEING OR TATTOOING!! And no unatural man made mutations that harm the fishs quality of life.

 

[GodFan]

Actually, I'm not being rude. I'm defending the fact that you read too much into what I posted and you still are. I am discussing things in a perfectly rational tone. You are the one who insists upon pushing people on their opinions. If you want to report me as being rude for defending my stance, there's a nice little report button on here, have at it.

You can believe in adding extra genes into something, where as I believe that it is against the laws of nature to do so. And yes, when someone tries to tell me that I'm wrong when I think something is unethical I do get offended. Just as you would get offended if I stated I didn't agree with your beliefs.

I am not gonna report you. That is petty and unnecessary. It would be pointless because I can garantee you I am not perfect and wouldnt want someone getting report happy on me lol
I think we are off topic though. We dont have to agree on everything. Now I COMPLETELY 100% AGREE that dyeing, tattooing, and all that is wrong. I dont even think that is opinion! The fish dont understand why they are being put through all of that!

 

[Tigroscr]

BTW DragonFish,
I misunderstood your other post. I do realize that some fish are dyed. I was simply trying to state that glofish arent. I think glofish are different because theyre quality of life is not affected. Guppies being made into fancytails is not natural and makes them swim slower. That was part of my misunderstanding.
So I think we definetly agree on at least a few things. NO DYEING OR TATTOOING!! And no unatural man made mutations that harm the fishs quality of life.

I'm not trying to disagree with you but I'm a little confused! :-( you say that glofish quality of life is not affected but honestly they don't IME have very long life spans compared to zebra danios I've had for several years! Anytime my daughter comes to me upset because there's a dead fish in her tank I'm never surprised to find it's a glofish! And all the other fish do great, I always do pwc's regularly and always check my params so maybe it's just a coincidence? That's one of the reasons that I won't be purchasing anymore of them.

 

[GodFan]

I'm not trying to disagree with you but I'm a little confused! :-( you say that glofish quality of life is not affected but honestly they don't IME have very long life spans compared to zebra danios I've had for several years! Anytime my daughter comes to me upset because there's a dead fish in her tank I'm never surprised to find it's a glofish! And all the other fish do great, I always do pwc's regularly and always check my params so maybe it's just a coincidence? That's one of the reasons that I won't be purchasing anymore of them.

I had never heard that. If they are all like that then I completely agree that their quality of life is affected.

 

[severum mama]

I have glo fish (not a hybrid, but a genetically modified zebra danio) and red blood parrots (manmade hybrid of debated parentage) (, I got them before I really knew much about hybrids and I guess in my naïveté had no idea that glo fish were dyed!! (They aren't dyed, they are genetically modified.) Knowing what I know now I would not purchase any glo fish in the future (they were my young daughters idea in the first place). But as far as the BP's I would probably get more because I love their personality, very timid and shy most of the time. As far as the research I've done on them though it's been very conflicting info. Some people say they're cichlids (they are; as much as is possible since they are manmade and do not exist in nature) and others say don't confuse the red blood parrot with the parrot cichlid (they absolutely shouldn't be confused- Hoplarchus psittachus, an unforunate rarity in the hobby, is the true "parrot cichlid". The "parrot cichlid" that most are accustomed to seeing is the manmade frankenfish without a Latin name.)!! Because they're two different species (BP is a manmade hybrid and is not assigned a species name; as it is not a species) which I find very confusing because I thought they were one and the same. Any how I was at the Lfs a few days ago and as usual thought I would just take a look at their fish variety and noticed they have a jelly bean blood parrot! When I arrived back home I looked them up on my iPad and saw where they're injected with dye and I won't be getting any of those!! (common names fail us in so many ways, and here is a great example- in some instances, the term refers to a dyed bp. In others, it refers to a bp/convict cross.)

Once again...

I get the whole personality thing with BPs, but the reality is that all SA/CA cichlids of similar size and temperament are that way, without the deformities. There's nothing about a BP's personality that is inherent to that fish. People say the same thing about flowerhorns, but Amphilophus trimaculatus (the Trimac) is exactly like it in terms of personality and aggression, it just qualifies for a Latin name... and IMHO is a much more attractive fish. I don't know, I just don't like the manmade designer hybrid fish at all.

Comments in blue.

 

[Tigroscr]

Thanks for the info severummama! It helped clear up a lot of misunderstanding and goes to show you can't always believe everything you read on the Internet! But honestly I'm still somewhat confused about the BPs because there's so many different info about them so it's overwhelming! So are they a cross between red devil/ convict cichlids? Or is that just what some people claim?

 

[mfdrookie516]

I don't think anyone really knows for sure... I've seen people say they're a cross between 10 different fish, and I've never seen online where anyone confirmed.

 

[jetajockey]

I'm pretty sure that the marine organism used for glofish is jellyfish, btw, not that it matters a whole lot.

And as far as this argument goes

If you have moral issues with it fine I dont. God gave us authority over the fish of the sea and the animals of the land. But we are also givin the responsibility to protect them.

Not to start getting into a theological conversation in this medium, but it is quite reminiscent of the tower of babel to me. If you want to discuss that aspect more feel free to PM me and we can talk about it.

Granted, selective bred variants are similar in that 'why are we changing something we are supposed to be protecting, if it aint broke don't fix it' type mentality, but there's a totally different level between taking some of the 'most attractive (note:subjective)' specimens for selective breeding, or even letting two species intrebreed naturally, versus injecting a creature with DNA and altering it's genetic makeup entirely.

 

[tarpon]

It's a natural gene from marine organisms, not a danio.

GloFish® Fluorescent Fish FAQ

Where does the fluorescent color come from?
The fluorescent color in our fish is produced by a fluorescent protein gene, which creates the beautiful fluorescence that can be seen when looking at the fish. The fluorescent protein genes occur naturally, and are derived from marine organisms.

So, since you're ok with splicing a gene from one creature to another, would you allow them to splice the same fluorescent protein into a human embryo? It matters not that now they are born with that gene, the point is that they were ORIGINALLY altered. Just because we can alter an animal, that doesn't mean we should.

If it isn't a natural mutation that enhances the quality of life for the animal, then I have strong moral issues with it. All creatures mutate which either causes that species to continually evolve or die out, but it's a natural mutation.

The way you keep pushing the fact and denouncing other people's ethics on the issue is rather disturbing.

Yes i would be okay with that. It would be [moderator edit]