mutated guppy babies

[brendan]

My female guppy gave birth to sixteen guppies a couple of weeks ago and since then they have all been doing quite well. Just a couple of days ago however, I started noticing that the bodies of some of the guppies were starting to curve quite significantly. Then today I noticed that one of them had died and another one was just lieing at the bottom. I should mention that at first they were all put in a floating birthing tank where they still are presently.

Has anyone had/seen what I'm talking about and if so do you know what it's a result of?

One other thing, is it pretty common for almost all of the babies to be female?

 

[Allivymar]

How often do you water change? And what are the parameters in the fry tank?

I think its a bacterial infection; likely Fish TB (see here: http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html#TB )

Not sure about the sexes tho; hopefully some of our guppy folks will be able to answer that.

 

[PlatyLady]

Hi Brendan,

I'm not sure if it's the same with guppies as it is with platies (waiting and should see soon!)... but all my platy fry look like females for the first little while, and then some of them 'turn into' males. I have no idea how to tell which ones are going to 'turn into' males before they actually do.

 

[Allivymar]

*High fives PlatyLady*

Simulpost!

 

[Fruitbat]

I'm not really a 'guppy expert' but I can answer THAT part of the question. The fry of many livebearers often look like they're all females because it takes time for the gonopodium (modified anal fin) of the males to develop. Secondary sexual characteristics (colors, longer fins, etc.) also develop as the fry grow.

In a study of the embryonic stages of the Green Swordtail, Xiphophorus helleri, it was noted upon microscopic examination of the embryos that all of them were, for a time in their earliest stages of development, neuter. When delivered they are invariably female in appearance. I should imagine this same pattern holds true for guppies.

 

[brendan]

Thanks for the posts everyone. Now if only I could find out what's causing the mutation?

 

[madasafish]

Yes, Brendan, I've heard of this happening. What you recount is one of the most common birth defects in fish. Fry of highly inbred or weak strains often develop deformities which may or may not be fatal (more often, esp. in nature, it is the former). Kinked spines are quite common, esp. in guppies, which are particularly inbred.

Dr. Chris Andrews, Dr. Peter Burgess et. al. mention this in their "Manual of Fish Health" and identify the causes as both genetic problems and (sometimes) poisoning by polluted water.

I'm guessing your problem is a case of inbreeding, but I'm no expert on this and can't state authoritatively just how inbred guppies have to be to have such problems. Obviously, we know that guppies are *really* inbred for particular traits!!

Sorry to hear of this problem. I'd advise getting a male or female from another store, so as to mix up the genetic stock... Or you could just allow nature to cull the fry, unpleasant as that may sound. I'm afraid my Zebra Danios get pregnant so often that I've stopped doing anything about it. The eggs or fry don't show up any more... They're quickly taken care of by my many bottom eaters, I think. In the case of your guppies, the parents will do this naturally if the babies aren't separated out quickly.

HTH

 

[brendan]

As for tank perameters pH is about 6.5, as for other parameters had the water tested recently by lfs and things were good. I'll post how things turn out next week.

 

[brendan]

madasafish,

I had a hunch that inbreeding might be the cause, especially after going to Petland and seeing nearly 150 guppies in a 20g tank (note: haven't bought fish there). Anyways I released the fry I had in the floating birthing tank and most of them are still doing well however some have been disappearing, I'm guessing that moma and my female swordtail are dinning on them during the night. Moma's pregnant again so hopefully I'll get my 35g up and running and transfer her to there and let the 10g be dedicated strickly to the new fry.

Thanks for you input.

Brendan

 

[Allivymar]

Ok you guppy folk, I'm confuzzled so I need some clearin up (since I don't do live bearers).

When guppys suffer from genetic disorders/birth defects such as the twisted spine, why does it show up a couple weeks later and not initially? I had guessed TB because the spinal curvature was just noted, but if thats how long it takes for it to become noticeable I want to make sure I don't oops like that again

Thanx!

 

[Minze]

I had a tank in which I kept guppies a few years ago. I had the exact same problem happening was definitely because of Inbreeding. 2 guppies turned into about 20 very quickly. After what would have been the 3rd generation the spinal deformities appeared. At that point I could not stop the breeding so I may get bashed for this, but I got an African Dwarf frog who managed to make sure that none of the fry ever made it to adulthood. That managed to keep everything in check for the tank.

 

[PK Tester]

Sexing of guppies is quite east.

in about a month after birth female gravid spots will appear...males will not get them.

 

[myriam]

Frank/Guppyman, where are you?! He is the resident guppy expert.

I think that inbreeding is definitely what's causing these mutations. The strains get weaker and weaker with so much inbreeding, and guppies are so inbred. It's kind of sad, actually.

 

[PK Tester]

Basically every where I have read...if you want a stronger fancy guppy make a hybrid. a smiple method if making an hybrid is crossing your fancy guppoies with feeder guppies. I dobut a LFS would buy these if you became overran though.