planning for a discus tank

[happygirl65]

Hello,


I am planning for a discus tank so any helpful advice is appreciated. My overall goal is a nice display tank, not really looking to breed them, if that happened, cool, but if not, cool too. I am planning to have about 6 of them.

Filter
I have read a lot about using sponge filters. I have never used a sponge filter....do they just use an air pump to work? Is any other filtration needed? I have a hang on tank magnum with bio wheel that I was not able to use on my current tank for space reasons...would this be an acceptable filter? (rated to 75 gal) should I use the sponge in addition, or do I only need the sponge?

Tank/Background/Substrate
I will probalby be getting a 50-70 gallon or so. Would it be alright to make a styro foam background for this tank? Carved styro then pfs glued to it with epoxy or silicon.... I was also thinking of making a styro bottom to look like a sandy bottom with holes for potting places for a few sword plants. That way it is mostly bare bottom for easy maint, but gives a place for plants etc. As well as another place for beneficial bacteria to live. Otherwise I am thinking very thin layer of PFS and pots for plants.

Tank Mates
Should I have discus only, or give them a few tankmates?
I would like to have some corys....have heard mixed reports on this....and some cardinal tetras. What about shrimp? Are they ok at the higher temps? ghost or cherry? Or will they become food? I was thinking of BN pleco but with the styro background I am not sure if they would make holes in it or not. It would be difficult to repair it if so. Thoughts?

RO with tap
My water is pretty hard with an aged ph of 8.0 (comes out of the tap at 7.0 but goes up to 8.0 after a couple of hours of sitting) It is collected mountain spring water and tastes good for drinking, I dont have exact measurements on the kh/gh but have ordered the test kits. I am planning to mix R/O with my tap water to acheive a desirable balance for them...should I age the water prior to PWC's?

I have also read that I should have all the other inhabitants after cycling (fishless) for quite a while before introducing the discus so I do plan on that as well.

I have not purchased anything yet, I am still planning so that I can get the ideal set up here.

Also I have been searching for good quality place to order the discus from online...anyone here know of a good source?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

 

[BrianNY]

Hi there happygirl65. I'm going try and help you as much as I can. The fact that you are planning this in advance gives you a great edge on having the discus display tank that you want. I applaud your enthusiasm for the king of FW fishes.

I have a sense that you're being bombarded with information and are confused about the priorities. So, we need to make sense of all the things you have read and heard. I'm going to simplify this as much as I can for you, but if you have questions, please ask.

The planted discus display tank - There is no reason why this tank should not contain a substrate. Planting heavily helps purify the water column. Plants such as Valisneria and crypts will do well in low light tanks.
A good cannister filter (or 2), is all that's needed. Your choice of tank mates is ideal. You could also include black neons, or rummy nose tetras.

Stock this tank well in advance of adding discus. The main reason is you want to be sure these fish are thriving and healthy before you add your prize discus. Not the other way around.

The discus grow out tank -
Since you'll be buying your discus on line, I'm assuming you'll be getting young ones. It's always a good idea for the discus keeper to have a spare tank ready should the need to medicate arise. Here's where the sponge filter and barebottom tank come in. Raise your discus in this tank. A 29g is ideal. It makes changing water easier than larger tanks. It's large enough for the discus to grow, and yet not so large that they have trouble finding food.

Water and pH -
Here again we need to keep this simple. I wouldn't assume anything about your water until you have KH reading for buffering capacity. My tap water does exactly what yours does. The thing is it's dead soft. THe pH quickly drops to below 6 through the normal biological processes in the tank. So let's know your KH before you make radical plans such as RO.

 

[happygirl65]

BrianNY Thanks so much! I can't tell you how much I appreciate your advice. I have looked at all of your pics inthe gallery and am just mesmerized. You are so right! There is a ton of info out there and lots of it is conflicting so your advice will be MOST helpful.

I am sure I will have more questions about my water when I get my test kits.

The site I really like says 3" for the size of the discus.....of course there is a much cheaper site selling "1.5-2.0 in." for about a third of the price which SOUNDS good, but would I be "getting what I pay for"? is the concern there.

So I would assume eitherway I would go with the grow out tank....correct?

I will still look again locally for sources as I have not visited ALL of the stores in Missoula yet (although most of them) and there might be some in Spokane, WA too that I need to explore before deciding to pay overnight shipping on those babies. One LFS has them from time to time so I might be able to have them call me when they get some etc.

I have also read a lot of conflicting info about ideal temp ranging from 82-85 degrees....

I guess I need to do my plant research to find what will work well in the warm temps and low light. I can always upgrade lighting if necessary....and perhaps CO2 will bring the ph down enough for the discus??? But I have also read conflicting reports about lighting needs of the discus....needing more subdued lighting? Does this become less important the more heavily planted it is?

Also I have read that you should not put too many fast growers in the tank because too much plant maint can stress the discus.....any truth to that in your exp?

I guess that's all I can think of for now.....Thanks again for your wisdom.

 

[BrianNY]

You're quite welcome. Minimum temp for discus is 84. In cooler temps they're immune system doesn't work as well.

No truth at all about too much plant maintenance. In fact, with all the pwcs I do, my discus have gotten used to me working in the tanks. It doesn't phase them a bit anymore.

When buying discus on line, or at the lfs, the larger you buy them, the less fragile they will be. I wouldn't buy anything under 2 inches to start.

 

[happygirl65]

Hello again!

I got my test kits finally and my KH is 8 and my GH is 9, this is with the API liquid reagent test.

It is definitely hard water, but in my planted tank the KH was down to 5....I am assuming that is from the plants using up the nutrients.

All of the tanks inhabitants seem to thrive in this water. I never have to worry about chlorine since it is natural spring water that we collect.

So I am planning on buying a second large tank to plant and set up for the discus display and will get the 29g for a growout tank as you suggested.

What would you recommend to help my water chemistry to be the most beneficial to the discus? Are there things I can do to bring the ph down without doing R/O or distilled water? I have read about driftwood and something about peat moss??? Are either of these a permanent solution? Or is there something that should be dosed to accomplish this?

I have also read that CO2 brings ph down but I am not sure if I want to have a high light tank or not. I am still getting used to 1.7 wpg on my 55 gal tank as it is. Although I am sure I would love it. And I do already have all the ferts etc.

Would you suggest a target pH in my situation? Or should I set up the tank like I did my last one, add the rest of the community and slowly acclimate them to a lower ph over time?

I plan on purchasing all new stock for the new tank when the time comes.

Thanks again for all of your help. I am so excited about this project and I can't talk to my family about it anymore until I am ready to set it up because they dont share my enthusiasm for the hobby....they just like to sit and enjoy the tank when I have it all done...lol.

Thanks again for your advice. I really appreciate it!!!!

 

[BrianNY]

Well I'm sharing your excitement for discus.

I used to think that water chemistry and discus were fairly unimportant. The truth is that even though discus may behave and even breed in water with a high pH and KH, they are under some stress. Filtering your water through peat will lower your KH and thus your pH. Just make sure that the peat you use contains no fertilizers. Simply place it in some sort of mesh bag and use an HOB to run the water through it. A quart of peat for a 29g will deionize your water effectively for roughly 1 month.

Monitor your pH frequently. When the pH starts to rise it's time to change it. Ideally the pH should be between 6 and 7.

 

[happygirl65]

Thanks! That sounds SO easy! I think I may be obsessed at this point....lol. But I think that planning and research are the best ways to ensure my ultimate success.

Should I use the peat alone or with other media? Can I use old filter floss from my existing tank to help cycle the tank?

I guess other than that....are there any necessary medications I should have "on hand" for the discus? Since I live 100 miles from town?

I certainly dont want to ask that question of an LFS employee!

Thanks again. I have great confindence now. Thanks for your support!

 

[fish4brains]

Hi. I used to keep and breed discus (before the internet craze!) and while a newbie on this forum, consider myself an old hand at fw and especially discus. I found that a chemi-pure filter element really helped maintain my water levels. Peat is good, but can take a while and may discolor your water. there was a waters of the world product i believe that worked well for my discuss. There is also a discus speciific ph buffer that i used (can't remember the name, but is readily available) in powder form that worked good also.

I kept mine in a 39 tall, the discus like height to move up and down in. I had a schooll of cardinal (prettier i think than neons - just because of the solid red stripe instead of half - very patriotic too!) and I also kept a couiple of blue rams, because i loved them. There was a gold nugget pleco for maintenance. The tank had a LARGE piece of driftwood that everyone liked. I used an undergravel filter than ran through a hang on filter on the back on one end and a powerhead on the other. They do like to have their water changed regularly. I also used two heaters (cheap insurance) one on either end. Also, they like a variety of food. I used vita chem and would soak frozen cubes in it, as well as adding to the water routinely. I also put the vita-chem on all the other foods. They were especially fond of live black worms, which i soaked in vita-chem as well! I know worms can be a no-no, but if you have a good source, they do love them. I had a pair that bred numerous times for me in these conditions.

Now I wanna do it again!! I have a sw tank I am getting going now, and the future wife so no until it is squared away... sigh (r they ever really squared away tho??) good luck. You will love it when they eat out of your fingers and recognize you when you come in the room and 'wag their tails'

 

[BrianNY]

Hey there fish4brains. I'm familair with Chemipure. It's an ion exchange resin. IMO it's over priced as peat will do the same thing.

Good questions happygirl. I use nothing but sponge filters and HOBs on my discus tanks. The planted 125 has (2) cannisters. It's important to keep the filters clean.

Your medicine chest should contain metrodinazole for the possibility of hex, and potassium permangenate for gill flukes. Hopefully you won't need these.

 

[happygirl65]

Well I am still working on it. Although my husband would prefer I didn't get another larger tank. He wants me to just use the 55 gallon that we have as the focal point in our living room. And quite honestly it would be the easiest place to maintain a discus tank since he built in a drain and added plumbing right behind the tank. Once or twice a week maint would be no problem at all.

So, just to think this through, I am hoping you can help me. I know I still need a 29 gal grow out tank, that will not be a problem.
But the 55 gal current inhabitants include:
2 BN Pleco
8 lemon tetra
7 cherry barbs
1 ADF
4 cory paleatus
6 angelfish

I realize first off that some or all of the angels will have to go, and it was my intention from the start to keep the ones that get along and take back any that cause problems, but so far they all get along. I have had all of these fish in the tank since November and everyone is thriving. The LFS I got the angels from said they will take them back for store credit so that will be easy enough to do when and if it becomes time.

But I would like to know if it is ok to put discus in a tank that healthy angels have previously been in....can they share with angels? I have heard conflicting reports on this as well and have witnessed the aggressive feedings of the angels. It is more a matter of being first in line than it is about pushing others away...so I just feed them in one spot and everyone else in another.
Do I need a UV sterilizer? Some sites suggest it is a must for discus.

Would you suggest getting rid of any other of my current inhabitants? The cherry barbs and the lemon tetras really keep to themselves. But after all they are in there with 6 angels so who knows...they used to rule the tank before the angels got bigger. I could trade them in for some cardinal tetras if necessary. Or put them in another tank and get some cardinals.

I suppose the most important question would be how many discus would you put in such a tank (heavily planted by the way) and do you think it is big enough to have enough of them that they would feel safe.

I know, I obsess but I am a planner because I can not stand the thought of failure in such an endeavor. I know you can never predict everything but I try.

Thanks in advance
Tori

 

[BrianNY]

I know that some do keep angels and discus together. In my opinion it's throwing dice. The immune systems are different. Angels can be carriers of both Hex and Colunmaris and live perfectly healthy lives. Discus are quick to succumb to these.

 

[happygirl65]

How about if I remove all of the angels first....could any disease they were carrying still be present in the tank?

 

[BrianNY]

As hexamita is a parasitic protozoan, it needs a live host to thrive. Removing the angels would therefore remove the threat. Columnaris is bacterial and can remain present in the water. Columnaris also thrives in hard water. However, once the angels are removed, if you keep the bioload low, and the tank clean you shouldn't have a problem.

To answer your question about "how many discus in a 55" happygirl, the answer depends on how much maintenance you're willing to do. Given the tankmates, I wouldn't keep more than 4.

 

[happygirl65]

Thanks so much for your input. I really appreciate it.
As far as maintenance goes, I actually love to do it. I find it relaxing, like gardening or other hobbies. It is one of those things that makes me feel closer to the fish (silly huh?) since it is something I can do that truly cares for them...like petting the cat I suppose. I could easily do maintenance twice a week. And since I am a stay at home mom I am always looking for something to do that is "me time".

I do think though that my original idea with the discus would be the best as far as tank mates. A school of cardinals are so beautiful. So I may just have to keep working on my husband and find a great deal on another large tank. I guess I just have to keep working on it and not give up. I could start dropping hints now for Christmas....lol.

 

[BrianNY]

Go gor it. I'm sure you'll become an exceptional discus keeper!!!!!!!!!!

 

[happygirl65]

I am so EXCITED! I have pretty much gotten the go ahead on the new large tank (my eventual discus home)! Which means I can go with all of my original plans etc. My husband decided that he doesn't have to understand my hobby as long as he knows it makes me happy! I think it helps that he loves what I have done with the other one.

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement!

 

[BrianNY]

Have you decided where you'll be purchasing your discus?

 

[happygirl65]

Not yet. I would like to find a breeder. I am still trying to find someone local enough (within 100miles) that I can pick them up....there are lots of places on the internet...but I am unsure of the shipping process etc. I suppose previous customer feedback will be important in determining that.

It is a lot of money to pay for shipping and sure they will credit you for the fish if they don't arrive in good shape, but you are out the money for the shipping either way.

I live about 100 miles from Spokane, WA, pass through Couer D'Alene, ID to get there and am 80 miles from Missoula MT the other direction.

If a shipper is willing to ship to the airport I can pick them up there and that might help...

Any ideas?

 

[BrianNY]

Try this one. www.greatlakesdiscus.com

I know Cary Strong from discus workshops and other forums. He's among the best. Haven't been in touch with him for some time. Hopefully he's still breeding and selling.

Good Luck

 

[happygirl65]

Thank You! That website looks great. I have e-mailed him. Hopefully I will hear back.