NitrAte spike, what causes it?

[Convict2161]

In my experiences when doing a very large water change and extreme cleaning of decor WILL create a spike. If you dont add a buffer then ph can be in danger. What's your ph out of tap. If its high enough I wouldn't really worry too much.

7.2 out of tap. I use either crushed coral in a media bag or Malawi buffer. Or kosher salt and baking soda I heard will do the same.

 

[Terrance]

(these numbers are 100% hypothetical) If someone's tank was producing 10ppm of nitrates a day and their filtration is consuming 5 and adding plants consumes 3 you will end up with 14ppm increase in nitrates each week as opposed to 35ppm without plants.

Yes I do understand what you're saying since your very first post. I'm just stating that plants are great for stable tanks (just like the hypothetical one you mentioned), but not for overstocked because these tanks are never stable. Lets add another variable to this scenario - overstocked with a bunch of cichlids. After some time, the 14ppm nitrAtes per week in the hypothetical scenario wouldn't correctly indicate the total amount of pollution in the water.

Plants grow and consume more or less nitrAtes throughout the week (assuming that these plants are being maintained properly). Even after a few months, if the nitrAtes levels are 14ppm, how would we know the level of all the dissolved waste (unmeasureable with hobby test kits)? Is it dangerously high or is it at a safe level? If its high, then we need to do more water changes than normally. The 14ppm nitrAte is a great number. Its a fantastic reading that actually covers the true reading of all the other hundreds of pollutants in the water and forces us to guess the amount/frequency of water changes per week.

How about in a few months all the fishes grow and increase the bioload in the water. Witout plants, the nitrAte level in the hypothetical tank indicates multiple water changes throughout the week. With plants, the nitrAte reading tells us to do 1-2 more water changes per week. Over time, we can maintain better water quality with the unplanted tank more than the planted tank because we know the actual amount of pollution inside the unplanted tank and can make adjustments as needed.

Then what if the 2 biggest fish die a few weeks later? The bioload changes again and we are back to wondering how much/many water change we should actually be doing per week.

With a healthy number of stock in a tank, we know that the water change schedule never changes because we account for the full size and bioload of each inhabitant and plan to meet the minimum requirement them.

 

[Jmedic25]

Yes I do understand what you're saying since your very first post. I'm just stating that plants are great for stable tanks (just like the hypothetical one you mentioned), but not for overstocked because these tanks are never stable. Lets add another variable to this scenario - overstocked with a bunch of cichlids. After some time, the 14ppm nitrAtes per week in the hypothetical scenario wouldn't correctly indicate the total amount of pollution in the water.

Plants grow and consume more or less nitrAtes throughout the week (assuming that these plants are being maintained properly). Even after a few months, if the nitrAtes levels are 14ppm, how would we know the level of all the dissolved waste (unmeasureable with hobby test kits)? Is it dangerously high or is it at a safe level? If its high, then we need to do more water changes than normally. The 14ppm nitrAte is a great number. Its a fantastic reading that actually covers the true reading of all the other hundreds of pollutants in the water and forces us to guess the amount/frequency of water changes per week.

How about in a few months all the fishes grow and increase the bioload in the water. Witout plants, the nitrAte level in the hypothetical tank indicates multiple water changes throughout the week. With plants, the nitrAte reading tells us to do 1-2 more water changes per week. Over time, we can maintain better water quality with the unplanted tank more than the planted tank because we know the actual amount of pollution inside the unplanted tank and can make adjustments as needed.

Then what if the 2 biggest fish die a few weeks later? The bioload changes again and we are back to wondering how much/many water change we should actually be doing per week.

With a healthy number of stock in a tank, we know that the water change schedule never changes because we account for the full size and bioload of each inhabitant and plan to meet the minimum requirement them.

I understand what yor saying here, but I dont agree entirely. At least with the statement that a non planted tank is can be more healthy than a planted tank. Plants offer lots of benefits. My planted tank is very clear always. The tests are the same always. My cichlid tank is always bouncing around. I know that this has a lot to do with the higher stock level in my cichlid tank. However, the plants offer protection from large swings like mega high nitrates like convict has had. I do think that water changes are still important on a schedule because there are things we dont measure for that are working in the tank. I think of it as antilock breaks. You can run without them but they help you. This is an awesome discussion BTW. I would like to here from some of the science whizzes out there on things like trace elements being depleted by plants causing fish stress..Things of that nature. Either way, were all learning and thats the point.

 

[Convict2161]

Agreed its always a learning process. I slacked on water changes and this is what happened. I've read that it's not really a bad thing. That it means my tank is doing what it's suppose to do its just that I wasn't doing what I was suppose to do.

I assuming the nitrAtes were doing there job and that's why I had 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites.

Also heres a question. Does anyone test for phosphates?

 

[ejaramillo01]

Agreed its always a learning process. I slacked on water changes and this is what happened. I've read that it's not really a bad thing. That it means my tank is doing what it's suppose to do its just that I wasn't doing what I was suppose to do.

I assuming the nitrAtes were doing there job and that's why I had 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites.

Also heres a question. Does anyone test for phosphates?

I do check every month or 6 weeks, I use the API liquid kit. My normal reading is 0 to 0.25 ppm

 

[Terrance]

I understand what yor saying here, but I dont agree entirely. At least with the statement that a non planted tank is can be more healthy than a planted tank. Plants offer lots of benefits. My planted tank is very clear always. The tests are the same always. My cichlid tank is always bouncing around. I know that this has a lot to do with the higher stock level in my cichlid tank. However, the plants offer protection from large swings like mega high nitrates like convict has had. I do think that water changes are still important on a schedule because there are things we dont measure for that are working in the tank. I think of it as antilock breaks. You can run without them but they help you. This is an awesome discussion BTW. I would like to here from some of the science whizzes out there on things like trace elements being depleted by plants causing fish stress..Things of that nature. Either way, were all learning and thats the point.

Slow growers are fine in-between the multiple water changes per week, just like the Java Fern in Convicts' tank. They will hardly affect the test readings but still offer the benefits of keeping plants. The fast growers give a sense of better water quality because they really do benefit the water conditions. However, if there was a large nitrAte swings, then its better to know about it with accurate readings and change the water quickly rather than seeing understated nitrAte values and waiting a few extra days to change it. Those few days living in poor water conditions add up real quick because it will happen many times again, which lead to a decrease in lifespan & growth of all fish. Slow growers are the way to go in an overstocked tank.

In a normal stable aquarium, both fast and slow growing plants are beneficial and encouraged to keep in-between the usual once per week water changes. The more plants, the better better off you will be in these types of setups. We can all agree on that

edit: +1 for the learning

 

[Convict2161]

Glad I posted. Learning some interesting stuff here. I have few questions or maybe concerns .

1.) If I added these plants. Would I be able to tell the true reason why nitrAtes are high?

2.) won't my misfits tear up the plants and roots just making my crystal clear water a HUGE mess? Something that my OCD would not like. I finally figured out the bubble and debris situation an got that all straightened out.

Then theres the filter issues, clogging etc...

If I just don't slack I think I'll be fine. I'm at around 20-40ppm which to my understanding is ok?

 

[Crawdaddy]

From tonight's results I'm just gonna stick with my weekly's AND NOT slack anymore. Here's tonight's results after 3 50% water changes 3 days in a row.

I think it's looking good. Another great example of why everyone should do there weekly water changes and not try and short cut it.

I'm new here, and since I too run cichlids, I have had a severe problem With nitrates. When I tested for them, they were off the scale. I did a major water change last week, and it didn't help any. This last Thursday, I found a product at Petsmart that I added to one of my filters. In this particular filter, I just run coral to help with the ph of my tank. I had to take the nitrate reducer out of it's media bag and I mixed it with the coral, and I just checked my levels and they were down to 10ppm. Quite an improvement from the over 160ppm I had before. Before they were literally off the chart, so I would recommend that you give it a try. The only problem is that I threw the container it was in out, and can't tell you what it was called. I can tell you this though, it was in a round orange container about the size of the old Kool-Ade containers we used to have as kids. The name on it did have to do with nitrate removal. Sorry I don't have the name for you, but look for it and give it a try.

 

[Jmedic25]

Glad I posted. Learning some interesting stuff here. I have few questions or maybe concerns .

1.) If I added these plants. Would I be able to tell the true reason why nitrAtes are high?

2.) won't my misfits tear up the plants and roots just making my crystal clear water a HUGE mess? Something that my OCD would not like. I finally figured out the bubble and debris situation an got that all straightened out.

Then theres the filter issues, clogging etc...

If I just don't slack I think I'll be fine. I'm at around 20-40ppm which to my understanding is ok?

Do a WC every saturday 50-75%. Figure out a rotation of cleaning your HOBS filter and the fluval filters. Try that for a month and chart your tests. Id say test nitrate every 5 days and keep a chart. I wouldnt bother testing anything else just for this month. As for the floating plants. They wont clog up anything unless something pushes them down into your fluvals intake.

 

[ejaramillo01]

Glad I posted. Learning some interesting stuff here. I have few questions or maybe concerns .

1.) If I added these plants. Would I be able to tell the true reason why nitrAtes are high?

2.) won't my misfits tear up the plants and roots just making my crystal clear water a HUGE mess? Something that my OCD would not like. I finally figured out the bubble and debris situation an got that all straightened out.

Then theres the filter issues, clogging etc...

If I just don't slack I think I'll be fine. I'm at around 20-40ppm which to my understanding is ok?

While I understand the science that supports the reduction of nitrates by the plants, I don't think that in a cichilds tank like yours will make a noticeable difference, unless you add a LOT floating plants. I think that the 50% to 75% weekly PWC will control the level of Nitrates.

On top of this, if you add a ton of plants, the fish will destroy some which in my opinion, and knowing you from your threads, will create a little messy debris... Again for the majority of us, it is not a big deal. I have a heavy planted community tank, plant debris is a "normal situation" here and there, but you really like crystal clear water... So my suggestion for convict is not to mess with more plants, and go with the suggestion above regarding the weekly "heavy" PWC...again just my opinion.

 

[Malawi Freak]

On top of this, if you add a ton of plants, the fish will destroy some which in my opinion, and knowing you from your threads, will create a little messy debris

This is why I recommend if using plants for nitrate control to do so in a refugium setup. That way they can't be eaten or torn up and are in direct contact with all tank water going through filtration.

 

[Convict2161]

This is why I recommend if using plants for nitrate control to do so in a refugium setup. That way they can't be eaten or torn up and are in direct contact with all tank water going through filtration.

Malawi,

This interests me. I have a AC 110 I can turn that into a fugium. Would it be worth it? I can easily do it and add plants and lighting etc.. Would it still act like a filter? Forgive my lack of knowledge but I'd like to know more an of it would be possible to do this in the 110 or even worth it. I only have the 110 for the polishing pads and if I can get better use out of I'd like to know how, what I need to do it and like I said is it worth it.

Thanks.

 

[ejaramillo01]

This is why I recommend if using plants for nitrate control to do so in a refugium setup. That way they can't be eaten or torn up and are in direct contact with all tank water going through filtration.

This is a great point Malawi...totally agree.

 

[Convict2161]

This is a great point Malawi...totally agree.

Totally interested in this. I'll be standing by for his input on this.

 

[Convict2161]

Oh and in the meantime I tested just now.



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[Jmedic25]

If your doing a planted refugium, obviously you will need to light it. You already have a FX5 Both would be overkill. Unless you sell the Fx5 then get a fuge

 

[Convict2161]

If your doing a planted refugium, obviously you will need to light it. You already have a FX5 Both would be overkill. Unless you sell the Fx5 then get a fuge

Worth it? Doesn't sound like it lol. Maybe just don't slack anymore. You see it's orange now after 4 changes in a row. For now on 50-75% every Saturday same day as saltwater. Saturday is now water change now in my house lol. I gotta train the men on how to do it lol. Send them over for "training" hahaha hey it includes hose and water no?

 

[LyndaB]

Another great example of why everyone should do there weekly water changes and not try and short cut it.

Is this what they mean by "those who don't do, teach".....

 

[Convict2161]

Is this what they mean by "those who don't do, teach".....

Yup! "do as I say, not as I do"

No more slacking...

 

[Malawi Freak]

You already have a FX5 Both would be overkill. Unless you sell the Fx5 then get a fuge

I agree.

I don't think the AC 110 would be beneficial enough to try it. I don't think it has enough of space to have the amount of plants that would make any noticeable changes.